Tim Keller: The Reason for God

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Tim Keller: The Reason for God
Tim Keller presents his views on believing in God. Includes Q&A.
Mar 29, 2008 8:33 AM
Re: Tim Keller: The Reason for God
The guy on 53 minutes make sitting through thin entirely worth it.

He's right on some stuff, though I do disagree with some things. About the suffering thing, why should God be expected to clean up after the human race?

God does exist, but god has nothing to do with religion.
By: SaladDays
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Re: Tim Keller: The Reason for God
1. Who knows if God really exists? No one.

2. If no one truly knows God, how can anyone base an entire organization of peoples around "him"

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Re: Tim Keller: The Reason for God
So I like him, mostly because he's open minded and civil, but I'm about half way through and so far I haven't heard him answer the question upon which his arguments relevance depends: Why does he believe in God? Maybe he'll really start digging into it in the next 10 seconds...
By: ice-9
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Re: Tim Keller: The Reason for God
Ooh...he actually sort of did, but what an awful argument - it takes a leap of faith not to believe in God? Sorry Charlie...nice try, but you really went downhill from there. I don't know any atheists that will insist that they KNOW that there DEFINITELY is no god. They don't KNOW that there DEFINITELY are no leprechauns living in my scrotum either (there are). However nearly every practicing Christian or Muslim I know says that they KNOW there is a god. Ask the ones you know if it might be remotely possible that there is no god. See how many say yes.

Sorry. A good man making a bad argument, like a sweet little kid desperately arguing with his/her skeptical friends that there IS a Santa Claus.
By: ice-9
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Re: Tim Keller: The Reason for God
Some immediate responses as I listen:

- Atheism is not a belief, and atheists do not believe there is no god and don't generally try to disprove gods. There's just no evidence for any god and therefore no reason to believe in a god existing. Atheism is a conclusion, and a default conclusion at that.

- Stalin did not come out of atheism, or do a single thing in the name of atheism. There were no atheist flags or uniforms, only Communist ones. Contrast that with the crosses on the shields and tabards of the Crusaders. Communism maintains a default of atheism simply because any actual religion would conflict with its own ideology, and because its populace is supposed to be happy without religion. The persistence of religion is bad PR.

- That a god is outside the universe if he exists is an admission that there's probably no evidence for one, while it presents a possible reason why. It also means there should be some other reason to believe besides evidence. So what other reason does an atheist have to switch?

- Living as if no god exists isn't an entirely safe bet, but since there are an infinite number of possible gods, living as if a specific one exists has a one in infinity (~0) chance of being correct. You're almost certainly screwed.

- Is believing even a choice? If you're not convinced, no god would be fooled if you fake it.

- The very word "fine-tuned" implies a tuner. Every possible combination of the fundamental constants has not been ruled out as conducive to matter and life (just the ones very close to ours). A questioner later brings this up.

- It's easier to accept the poker player's explanation if the only reason there's a poker game at all is that he's right. The multiverse postulates multiple instances of a known object (this universe) whereas theism postulates an object with no precedent at all (a god). And the multiverse is not the only other explanation for the constants.

- He came really close to saying evolution is a chance process. It has one big random element (mutation), but every change is tested and kept or discarded purely on its own merits.

If humans make human rights because we're human (his third option, my opinion) then it is subject to override by the majority. The fact that every member of any majority is a person with empathy for others biologically built in is the reason why any travesty of established human rights has had to be forced on the majority by a powerful minority. Established human rights have changed over time; does God only now disapprove of slavery?

- Strong faith in the wrong branch could kill you. There are countless branches, and in a way you only get one try. Who even says you're falling?

- No reason given to believe the Bible (Jesus, the resurrection, 1 Corinthians, the 500 witnesses) except that it's a good story with an author surrogate in it.
By: SmartLX
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Re: Tim Keller: The Reason for God
Has anyone else been noticing the Ben Stein adverts for this new creationist film coming out.

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Re: Tim Keller: The Reason for God
It's NOT a creationist film. It's a free-speech film.
By: garrettis
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