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Where is the Money?
Around 25% of Pentagon funding is unaccounted for. This totals into the trillions.
Dec 11, 2007 11:00 AM
Re: Where is the Money?
And you want the government to handle all of our health care and biomedical research as well?
By: poonhound
Re: Where is the Money?
Its not that the government wastes the money.......its when their is no oversight. This usually happens when public goods are outsourced to private entities in a public private partnership.
You have to understand this difference. Publicly run water utilities.....efficient and for the public good. Private run monopolies of public water = inefficient waste.
Its like this everywhere. Our current military isn't publicly run, its a public private partnership. Pentagon gets money which it gives to companies liek bechtel, lockeed martin, haliburton, boeing, blackwater, and many others. This is when corruption is rampant.
You have to understand the difference. When the government decides to outsource something like lets say schools to private markets, huge corruption will occur because its a public private partnership.
Currently there is lots of corruption in the healthcare market, because tax dollars are given to private entities like drug makers and hmo's and again no oversight. You can't say this is a failure of public good.....its public private partnerships failing.
Whats the solution? Don't let the governement say privitize public goods via the argument private is more efficient. Because private public partnerships are always ineffecient. Defense shouldn't have for profit entities, and nor should water supplies of cities be for profit and nor should healthcare.
Please become educated before you oversimplify and just blame it on government.
You have to understand this difference. Publicly run water utilities.....efficient and for the public good. Private run monopolies of public water = inefficient waste.
Its like this everywhere. Our current military isn't publicly run, its a public private partnership. Pentagon gets money which it gives to companies liek bechtel, lockeed martin, haliburton, boeing, blackwater, and many others. This is when corruption is rampant.
You have to understand the difference. When the government decides to outsource something like lets say schools to private markets, huge corruption will occur because its a public private partnership.
Currently there is lots of corruption in the healthcare market, because tax dollars are given to private entities like drug makers and hmo's and again no oversight. You can't say this is a failure of public good.....its public private partnerships failing.
Whats the solution? Don't let the governement say privitize public goods via the argument private is more efficient. Because private public partnerships are always ineffecient. Defense shouldn't have for profit entities, and nor should water supplies of cities be for profit and nor should healthcare.
Please become educated before you oversimplify and just blame it on government.
By: timwatly
Re: Where is the Money?
Ah but does corruption not also come from politicians being pressured to outsource by private corporations? These private entities fund political elections putting them in the bid to take advantage of these public partnerships. I still say bring back the guillotine, because to say; Don't let the government privatize, is a task beyond the capabilities of our capital driven society.
By: SeaOfTea
Re: Where is the Money?
well i agree somewhat. But i just hate when people oversimpify and say government doesn't work and point to bush screw up after screw up. It has capabilities of running well, just don't confuse private public partnership screw ups with that of all governements.
People need to realize the power they have. Government is a tool for the public good by definition. Corporations are given charters by the government. These private entities need to support the public good first and then optimize profit. They can't just go for profit and yet have conficting interest in public good. If not the government has the right to revoke their charters.
I don't see a people revolution coming anytime soon with the guillotine. Most people just care about the next american idol are grey's anatomy. So all i can do is try to educate those who oversimplify complex partnerships and then use that as an argument to privatize everything.
People need to realize the power they have. Government is a tool for the public good by definition. Corporations are given charters by the government. These private entities need to support the public good first and then optimize profit. They can't just go for profit and yet have conficting interest in public good. If not the government has the right to revoke their charters.
I don't see a people revolution coming anytime soon with the guillotine. Most people just care about the next american idol are grey's anatomy. So all i can do is try to educate those who oversimplify complex partnerships and then use that as an argument to privatize everything.
By: timwatly
Re: Where is the Money?
I believe you are right. In a country where lobbyists and privately owned companys contribute the majority of the campaignfunds of presidential candidates it is hard for a politician to stand up to these companies when they turn up the heat so to speak. It is a downward spiral and the only thing that can "save" the country now is a total economic collaps, on all levels. Not like the depression at the beginning of the 1900 but one that ruins the economical elite of the US. Personally I doubt such a crisis is improbable to ever occure.
By: Langos
Re: Where is the Money?
Whatever chairman Mao. You are saying a single-payer government-run healthcare system, with no competition, would be efficient? That would be a monopoly too, wouldnt it? How many europeans on waiting lists for routine surgery think their system is efficient, particularly when their countries spend more per GDP on health care, than our government pays for our military AND healthcare entitlements (like Medicare) combined.
You can't have a completely private military, only contractors for equipment and technology, because you can't have citizens of a nation choose which army to protect them, and buy "war insurance." same thing with police, law and order, public infrastructure that people share, ect.
And since when is healthcare a "public good?" If you eat like a pig and get diabetes, why should I pay for it?
Plus, If the government fixes prices on medicines, who will invest in new technology if they can't get a return on their investment? Again, the tax payers pay for it. And what do you get? Either a "research monopoly" organization (like the sclerotic public-university system) or contracting out tax money to private companies like the military has to do...which you hate anyway.
You can't have a completely private military, only contractors for equipment and technology, because you can't have citizens of a nation choose which army to protect them, and buy "war insurance." same thing with police, law and order, public infrastructure that people share, ect.
And since when is healthcare a "public good?" If you eat like a pig and get diabetes, why should I pay for it?
Plus, If the government fixes prices on medicines, who will invest in new technology if they can't get a return on their investment? Again, the tax payers pay for it. And what do you get? Either a "research monopoly" organization (like the sclerotic public-university system) or contracting out tax money to private companies like the military has to do...which you hate anyway.
By: poonhound
Re: Where is the Money?
First of all where do you get this GDP stat, seems like total bs. Did you just pull that out of your ass and think no one would check? Well i did. US is number 1 in GDP health care spent. We spent more in dollars than any other country, more dollars per person, and more in GDP as a percentage than any other country. So wtf are you citing. Not to mention you then say they spend more on healthcare than we spend on healthcare and defense spending combined. Are you delusional? Where are you getting that, do you have any idea how much we spend on defense? Again must be pulling this out of your ass. So then i think it stands to reason that this bogus thing about them on waitlists must also be your imagination, since clearly you are not getting this from facts. But lets move on.
Second, our military is more private than ever. Even functions like doing laundry have been outsourced to companies like halliburton. Feeding this troops outsourced to hallibruton. Even things like arabic translaters outsourced to Titan. The list goes on and on.
And now we have for hire mercenaries from backwater, which undermine are troops due the fact they get payed 5 times more and get better gear.
Obviously when it comes to weapon development we have had this be private public partnership for a long time, but does it have to be. I have several friends who work at defense contracting and talk about the rampant corruption. No deadlines, no one cares about costs due to the cost plus system. Eisenhower said in his last presidential speech, beware of the industrial military complex. It has been getting bigger and bigger thanks to the likes or Reagon and now Bush.
Also, just so you know. The majority of significan breakthroughs when it comes to medical research of cancer, aids, ect, come from university research already supported by tax payer dollers. Drug companies don't find it profitable to do cancer and aids reserach. They will research boner pills and hairloss treatments but not the big issues. And what happens when their is a breakthough at the university level, they give the research over to drug company to patent and have monopoly on it, so the good people of phizer or merck can make a profit on it and not give the drug away to poor in other countries that need it most.
When we talk about ineffiencies in the market of public/private ventures of the military, its not casue its a 'monopoly" as you put it. Its due to the lack of oversight. When it comes to the healthcare system, we currently have this same lack of oversight, but also there are so many paper pushers. Going to a single payer government run system cuts out so much of the excess. The HMO's, insurance companies. All this is money saved.
Also healthcare might not be a public good, although you could make an argument for it. Are we not better off when there are less people with STDs, less chance that we get it. If an epedemic comes back like the plague, or some flu, are we not better off if or neighbor doesn't have it? If people are healthy are we not better off as a society that they can then be consumers of goods and services? I think a healthy society benefits us all.
I think you need to open your eyes.........
Second, our military is more private than ever. Even functions like doing laundry have been outsourced to companies like halliburton. Feeding this troops outsourced to hallibruton. Even things like arabic translaters outsourced to Titan. The list goes on and on.
And now we have for hire mercenaries from backwater, which undermine are troops due the fact they get payed 5 times more and get better gear.
Obviously when it comes to weapon development we have had this be private public partnership for a long time, but does it have to be. I have several friends who work at defense contracting and talk about the rampant corruption. No deadlines, no one cares about costs due to the cost plus system. Eisenhower said in his last presidential speech, beware of the industrial military complex. It has been getting bigger and bigger thanks to the likes or Reagon and now Bush.
Also, just so you know. The majority of significan breakthroughs when it comes to medical research of cancer, aids, ect, come from university research already supported by tax payer dollers. Drug companies don't find it profitable to do cancer and aids reserach. They will research boner pills and hairloss treatments but not the big issues. And what happens when their is a breakthough at the university level, they give the research over to drug company to patent and have monopoly on it, so the good people of phizer or merck can make a profit on it and not give the drug away to poor in other countries that need it most.
When we talk about ineffiencies in the market of public/private ventures of the military, its not casue its a 'monopoly" as you put it. Its due to the lack of oversight. When it comes to the healthcare system, we currently have this same lack of oversight, but also there are so many paper pushers. Going to a single payer government run system cuts out so much of the excess. The HMO's, insurance companies. All this is money saved.
Also healthcare might not be a public good, although you could make an argument for it. Are we not better off when there are less people with STDs, less chance that we get it. If an epedemic comes back like the plague, or some flu, are we not better off if or neighbor doesn't have it? If people are healthy are we not better off as a society that they can then be consumers of goods and services? I think a healthy society benefits us all.
I think you need to open your eyes.........
By: timwatly
Re: Where is the Money?
Your good points remind me how curious it was that "Gilead Sciences" (a company formerly run or funded by Donald Rumsfeld) is the only company allowed to produce the cure against H5N1.
It sounds obvious that they're making a business out of people's health ...or like you said, they only produce the cure whenever they can make a profit out of it, using the wolrd-wide panic that sickness created.
It sounds obvious that they're making a business out of people's health ...or like you said, they only produce the cure whenever they can make a profit out of it, using the wolrd-wide panic that sickness created.
By: NEU-NEU
Re: Where is the Money?
hehe....poonhound... hes a hound... for poon...
<ahem>
"If you eat like a pig and get diabetes, why should I pay for it?"
Poonhound-
Well, it seems you're not for the whole UNITED-WE-STAND idea poonhound. Poonhound is not a civics major. If I am a team player and America is the team, then I should do everything I can to help my other team players right? Shouldnt we be trying to help everyone become intelligent? Shouldnt we teach everyone about diabetes? A society is only as strong as its weakest member. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.
No man is an island, Poonhound.
One day, you will reget being selfish. (if not every day)
<ahem>
"If you eat like a pig and get diabetes, why should I pay for it?"
Poonhound-
Well, it seems you're not for the whole UNITED-WE-STAND idea poonhound. Poonhound is not a civics major. If I am a team player and America is the team, then I should do everything I can to help my other team players right? Shouldnt we be trying to help everyone become intelligent? Shouldnt we teach everyone about diabetes? A society is only as strong as its weakest member. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.
No man is an island, Poonhound.
One day, you will reget being selfish. (if not every day)
By: meat
