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God: Terrorist of Love
James Dobson (founder, Focus on the Family) played this audio clip of Pastor John MacArthur on his radio show, and he heartily agreed.
According to John's statements, apparently God is a terrorist.
Music by Eddie Current.
According to John's statements, apparently God is a terrorist.
Music by Eddie Current.
Nov 11, 2007 1:10 PM
Re: God: Terrorist of Love
as a christian, i don't really know what to say here. other than i think mr. macarthur is off kilter, and i would disagree with him. i think people who feel abandoned by God really have a lack of love in their own life. because if love is in your life, so is God, whether you are a christian or not. and anyone saying God has abandoned us is simply not allowing loving or allowing themselves to be loved....they are caught up in the human ego. in thinking that we could possibly do something evil enough to cause God to walk away. because we can't. God is bigger than that...and loves us more than that.
By: macgregor
Re: God: Terrorist of Love
just to clear things up, i get that edward current is using satire here. i'm not commenting on the video, but on mr. macarthur's comment(s). to hear someone who is the leader of a church say God has abandoned our entire country is just sad. could God abandon us? sure. would he? i don't know. i don't think so. He abandoned Jesus while He was dying on the cross. so what does this mean? did He destroy sodom and gomorrah because of their evil ways...yup. did He flood the earth because of men's evil ways? yup. so what does this mean for us today? that He could still do that if He wanted to. but i have faith He won't. i have faith that God loves us. seriously loves us beyond our understanding, and that He wants to help us, to guide us. the exact opposite of abandonment. i think God is in everyone's daily life...and it's our job to seek Him. to make an effort to know Him. and if we feel abandoned, then maybe we are. or maybe we've just turned to ourselves for security and identity, and have lost sight of what really matters. that's been my experience at least.
sorry to write so much, i just want everyone out there in internet land to know that not all christians take the same views as the radio show hosts and televangelists. i think these disagreements happen, because different groups of christians try and put boundries on God, and box Him in and make Him into something they can wrap their heads around. something that works for them...rather than letting God be bigger than that, rather than letting Him remain a mystery, rather than admitting we don't have all the answers, and parts of 'Christianity' have paradoxes. and that's because we've labeled God as the God of this one religion. and that limits Him. He is bigger than all that. so much bigger...and because of that, we can't and won't fully ever understand Him. if we did, He wouldn't be God. we would. and we aren't.
again, my apologies for the length.
sorry to write so much, i just want everyone out there in internet land to know that not all christians take the same views as the radio show hosts and televangelists. i think these disagreements happen, because different groups of christians try and put boundries on God, and box Him in and make Him into something they can wrap their heads around. something that works for them...rather than letting God be bigger than that, rather than letting Him remain a mystery, rather than admitting we don't have all the answers, and parts of 'Christianity' have paradoxes. and that's because we've labeled God as the God of this one religion. and that limits Him. He is bigger than all that. so much bigger...and because of that, we can't and won't fully ever understand Him. if we did, He wouldn't be God. we would. and we aren't.
again, my apologies for the length.
By: macgregor
Re: God: Terrorist of Love
I don't think many pastors, televangelists, etc pay much to politics. Things like 9/11 allow them to take even more control over their followers. Which is what most religions are about, control of the populous. And I know not all Christians believe this, but not many can agree on much either.
As for the video I wouldn't say he's using much satire on this one, more of a logical deduction. Logically it may be correct, but doesn't mean it's agreeable to most.
As for the video I wouldn't say he's using much satire on this one, more of a logical deduction. Logically it may be correct, but doesn't mean it's agreeable to most.
By: ipwnzj00
Re: God: Terrorist of Love
I agree with ipwnzj00 that the video is not sarcasm, but a logical corrolation between the two entities' behaviors. (that would be God and Bin Laden both acting the part of terrorist)
As to your comments macgregor, I understand that you're playing the part of a soft line Christian, but I have to ask you this:
Isn't God supposed to be a constant? By this I mean, do you believe God to be a perfect rather than an evolving or changing entity? If so, then if you believe God to be the same entity that created us and was in charge during old testament times (when "did He flood the earth because of men's evil ways? yup" happened), then it's not too far fetched to believe that the God you worship today could lash right out at you simply because you live in an evil place. Seems rather petulant to me, and saying "you can't understand His ways" doesn't really excuse the death and destruction. It seems fairly straightforward that conditioning through fear is what's going on here. Almost any behavioral scientist will verify that fear of pain is one of the easiest ways to condition. It's the way men have successfully ruled their countries for years.
Also, while I appreciate your comments, I feel it's important to note that according to most Christian faiths I've heard of, God simply is "God as the God of this one religion" and to believe otherwise is to disbelieve. You sound more like an agnostic than a Christian according to strict church doctrine. Not a flame, just an observation.
As to your comments macgregor, I understand that you're playing the part of a soft line Christian, but I have to ask you this:
Isn't God supposed to be a constant? By this I mean, do you believe God to be a perfect rather than an evolving or changing entity? If so, then if you believe God to be the same entity that created us and was in charge during old testament times (when "did He flood the earth because of men's evil ways? yup" happened), then it's not too far fetched to believe that the God you worship today could lash right out at you simply because you live in an evil place. Seems rather petulant to me, and saying "you can't understand His ways" doesn't really excuse the death and destruction. It seems fairly straightforward that conditioning through fear is what's going on here. Almost any behavioral scientist will verify that fear of pain is one of the easiest ways to condition. It's the way men have successfully ruled their countries for years.
Also, while I appreciate your comments, I feel it's important to note that according to most Christian faiths I've heard of, God simply is "God as the God of this one religion" and to believe otherwise is to disbelieve. You sound more like an agnostic than a Christian according to strict church doctrine. Not a flame, just an observation.
By: catgrin
Re: God: Terrorist of Love
i appreciate the insights. yes i believe God is constant and perfect. and that He is the same yesterday and today and forever. in my comment i admitted that He could very well destroy us for our evil ways. but i don't think He will. after the flood, he gave us the rainbow as a sign of His promise never to flood the earth again. (yes i fully realize how rediculous this sounds. i realize it sounds like i was simply told a cute little story as a child and have believed it my whole life with rose colored glasses. i realize how 'far out' a thought it truly is, and i'm not surprised if someone thinks i'm a little crazy or just plain dumb for believing it. but i do believe it.)
i believe that God is loving. and that He is also just. not fair...but just. i believe these because of the teachings of Jesus (who i believe to be God residing in the physical body of a human man.) Jesus teaches love, forgiveness, selflessness. He teaches us to help those in need, whether we think they deserve it or not. He teaches us to love our enemies. it's these teachings i believe come from God, showing us His compassion and love for His creation. I believe that God works in everyone's life. whether they believe in Him or not. I believe people can experience God and not be a 'Christian'. All you have to do is climb a mountain, or see the beach, or a sunset or anything that is natural and beautiful and astounding. And that sense of amazement i believe is us experiencing God and feeling a sense of beauty and awe. if some christian groups or churches don't believe in God in this manner, i think they're missing the bigger picture. i don't think of God as being the God of this one religion. i know some people that do, and many, many people who don't. some christians believe that God is God. of everything, and everyone. what seperates christians from the mix is the belief that Jesus is also God, and that His death on a cross forgave me (and anyone who accepts that truth)it forever. and there is no way for any of us to repay this debt. but whether you believe that or not, i think you can still experience God. i think you can experience His love. for you. as an individual. and that this experience leads some people to devote the rest of their lives to Him.
and i don't think it's our job as christians to 'save people'. to keep them from hell. i think it's our job to show love. to show compassion and kindness. to put the needs of others before our own. to help and to heal in any capacity we're capable. to share God's love. to tell them what Jesus did for them. and then allow God to do the rest. and i think somewhere along the lines that whole idea got lost in american christianity. but a lot of us are discovering the power of love and compassion and our ability to do very little, and God's ability to do a whole lot.
my apologies for the length. it's probably more than you were looking for, but hope it provided some insight as to why i might seem to view things outside strict church doctrine.
i believe that God is loving. and that He is also just. not fair...but just. i believe these because of the teachings of Jesus (who i believe to be God residing in the physical body of a human man.) Jesus teaches love, forgiveness, selflessness. He teaches us to help those in need, whether we think they deserve it or not. He teaches us to love our enemies. it's these teachings i believe come from God, showing us His compassion and love for His creation. I believe that God works in everyone's life. whether they believe in Him or not. I believe people can experience God and not be a 'Christian'. All you have to do is climb a mountain, or see the beach, or a sunset or anything that is natural and beautiful and astounding. And that sense of amazement i believe is us experiencing God and feeling a sense of beauty and awe. if some christian groups or churches don't believe in God in this manner, i think they're missing the bigger picture. i don't think of God as being the God of this one religion. i know some people that do, and many, many people who don't. some christians believe that God is God. of everything, and everyone. what seperates christians from the mix is the belief that Jesus is also God, and that His death on a cross forgave me (and anyone who accepts that truth)it forever. and there is no way for any of us to repay this debt. but whether you believe that or not, i think you can still experience God. i think you can experience His love. for you. as an individual. and that this experience leads some people to devote the rest of their lives to Him.
and i don't think it's our job as christians to 'save people'. to keep them from hell. i think it's our job to show love. to show compassion and kindness. to put the needs of others before our own. to help and to heal in any capacity we're capable. to share God's love. to tell them what Jesus did for them. and then allow God to do the rest. and i think somewhere along the lines that whole idea got lost in american christianity. but a lot of us are discovering the power of love and compassion and our ability to do very little, and God's ability to do a whole lot.
my apologies for the length. it's probably more than you were looking for, but hope it provided some insight as to why i might seem to view things outside strict church doctrine.
By: macgregor
Re: God: Terrorist of Love
i think that the people who thank god for how awesome our nation has become belittle the accomplishments of science.
while i appreciate your stance that it's not the christian's job to "save people", believe me i REALLY appreciate that stance, right up to that point when you said "to tell them what Jesus did for them. and then allow God to do the rest." it's that kind of condescending attitude that earns even moderate christians like you so much flack from atheists like me. there's nothing wrong with being atheist. and there's nothing particularly wrong with people choosing other religions over your own, so don't prostletizing to them either, and yes, telling them about jesus, is prostletizing. and yes, it is irritating and unnecissary, even in your "benign" form. so GO! be nice, be kind, and take a page from that book of yours and keep your private religious belief private, nobody wants to hear them, except maybe your other christian buddies, but that really is "preaching to the choir" isn't it? =p
while i appreciate your stance that it's not the christian's job to "save people", believe me i REALLY appreciate that stance, right up to that point when you said "to tell them what Jesus did for them. and then allow God to do the rest." it's that kind of condescending attitude that earns even moderate christians like you so much flack from atheists like me. there's nothing wrong with being atheist. and there's nothing particularly wrong with people choosing other religions over your own, so don't prostletizing to them either, and yes, telling them about jesus, is prostletizing. and yes, it is irritating and unnecissary, even in your "benign" form. so GO! be nice, be kind, and take a page from that book of yours and keep your private religious belief private, nobody wants to hear them, except maybe your other christian buddies, but that really is "preaching to the choir" isn't it? =p
By: Error302
Re: God: Terrorist of Love
Under the basis of God's moral status being on unchanging consistent parameters, the logical deduction would be to assume that his status upon matters can then be pinpointed and measured.
Simply put, is formulating what is fundamentally good vs evil within measurable parameters counterproductive, and if so, why?
Please try to formulate any answers to this with two parts, as shown in below example. There is no metaphorical gibberish here, individually concocted fallacies aside. Expect no (or a fallacy stabbing) response if you can't stick to this answer format. I'm being strict to obtain answers as straightforwards as the question.
Example:
Yes/No. (own line, separated from 'why' answer for clarity)
Why. (long as you want it to be, the personal specifics 'at the time of posting' as to your leaning towards Yes or No)
Aiming for consistency, mayhap its not a shot in the dark. 8)
Simply put, is formulating what is fundamentally good vs evil within measurable parameters counterproductive, and if so, why?
Please try to formulate any answers to this with two parts, as shown in below example. There is no metaphorical gibberish here, individually concocted fallacies aside. Expect no (or a fallacy stabbing) response if you can't stick to this answer format. I'm being strict to obtain answers as straightforwards as the question.
Example:
Yes/No. (own line, separated from 'why' answer for clarity)
Why. (long as you want it to be, the personal specifics 'at the time of posting' as to your leaning towards Yes or No)
Aiming for consistency, mayhap its not a shot in the dark. 8)
By: Jiachi
Re: God: Terrorist of Love
Everyone talking about God, but as usual no one defines God. God is incomprehensible so to comprehend God is fantasy and wishful thinking the source being a human ego. So what is being discussed here about God is nonsense. Any human who claims to "know" the mind of God is a liar, a Biblical Harlot, usually promoting false doctrines which are Fornication of the Bible[KJV].
By: bogananda666
