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Logical Fallacies of Common Religious Arguments
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An explanation of many logical fallacies that theists often commit when trying to discredit science and evolution.
Jul 9, 2007 11:30 PM
Re: Logical Fallacies of Common Religious Arguments
I'm not sure why he calls them "theistic fallacies." The correct term is "informal fallacies." People use these all the time, they are by no means restricted to theists. I mean, c'mon, just watch Fox News, or any speech by just about any American politician.
By: i8ursandwich
Re: Logical Fallacies of Common Religious Arguments
Eh, nevermind I guess. He originally just refers to them as "logical fallacies," and doesn't call them "theistic fallacies" until the end. Meh.
By: i8ursandwich
Re: Logical Fallacies of Common Religious Arguments
I think your original comment was still spot on. These are simply examples of categories of bad arguments- period. There is no class of argument listed here specific to theists. While the truth might be that many of the examples he offers are often used by some evangelicals, other theists still recognize those same examples as bad arguments. For instance, none of that stuff would fly at my own seminary! Perhaps he's guilty of making his own bad argument that "because a specific group of theists makes bad arguments therefore all theists make bad arguments?"
By: skittygrrl
Re: Logical Fallacies of Common Religious Arguments
"Perhaps he's guilty of making his own bad argument that 'because a specific group of theists makes bad arguments therefore all theists make bad arguments?'"
It's funny, because most theists accuse me of this. But, to the observant, this is an obvious Straw Man.
I'm not pretending I've destroyed theism (it does that itself by being founded on false premises), just hoping that maybe by getting these out of the way I might hear some of the fabled "real" arguments from theists once in a while.
Hit me with your best shot, if you've got one.
It's funny, because most theists accuse me of this. But, to the observant, this is an obvious Straw Man.
I'm not pretending I've destroyed theism (it does that itself by being founded on false premises), just hoping that maybe by getting these out of the way I might hear some of the fabled "real" arguments from theists once in a while.
Hit me with your best shot, if you've got one.
By: Hier
Re: Logical Fallacies of Common Religious Arguments
The Scriptures never uses the words "infallable" or "inerrant" to describe itself. It also does call itself an "authority" or "absolute". Why do we use these words? Why do we have to enhance the validity of the Scriptures by impressing these words on it? Why do most Christians require Scripture to be "inerrant" in order to be taken seriously?
By: garrettis
Re: Logical Fallacies of Common Religious Arguments
I meant "it also does NOT call itself an authority or absolute".
By: garrettis
Re: Logical Fallacies of Common Religious Arguments
If God is perfect, and the Bible is the word of God, the Bible is perfect. I could map it out for you in modal logic, if you like.
If you don't claim something tangible as your ultimate source, your own mind is your ultimate source (something I'm a fan of, as an atheist).
I don't think I'm drawing a false dichotomy when I say that you can choose to be a "real" Christian, or you can pick and choose what you will believe and how you will act based on factors within you, and not without.
Frankly though, I'd rather you were a hypocritical "moderate" Christian than a Fundamentalist.
If you don't claim something tangible as your ultimate source, your own mind is your ultimate source (something I'm a fan of, as an atheist).
I don't think I'm drawing a false dichotomy when I say that you can choose to be a "real" Christian, or you can pick and choose what you will believe and how you will act based on factors within you, and not without.
Frankly though, I'd rather you were a hypocritical "moderate" Christian than a Fundamentalist.
By: Hier
Re: Logical Fallacies of Common Religious Arguments
I rate it as a 4. It provides some good points of discussion, and definitely some things to keep in mind when considering an argument critically. On atheism, though, he really provides no positive argument, nor does he provide evidence that theism is incorrect, but tactfully leaves it in the viewer's hands to decide for themselves whether or not this condemning of pieces of the religious argument changes their minds or reinforces it in either direction. As for me, I am not moved either way, for as I said, he provided little or no argument in favor of atheism, but now I definitely know what to look for next time I listen in on a debate or sit in a pew for a sermon.
Disagree? Cool, maybe you could point out something I might have missed.
P.S. I will note that he 'attacks the man' at the beginning, ironically number one on his list. ;)
Disagree? Cool, maybe you could point out something I might have missed.
P.S. I will note that he 'attacks the man' at the beginning, ironically number one on his list. ;)
By: MrElmo
Re: Logical Fallacies of Common Religious Arguments
context, people. this is a response in kind to a similar video in which a smaller number of logical fallacies was described and applied in order to undercut atheistic arguments. as part of a long internet conversational tradition that was once relegated to AOL chatrooms and the comments section of blog posts (irony?), this powerpoint presentation masquerading as critical thinking should not be taken as anything but what it is--an elaborate way of saying "i know you are but what am i?" on youtube.
ps atheists rule
ps atheists rule
By: bobolifoo
Re: Logical Fallacies of Common Religious Arguments
It was only barely a response. I only mentioned the other guy to give it extra context. I noticed that YouTube lacked any even approachingly-comprehensive video on fallacies.
ps we do rule
ps we do rule
By: Hier
Re: Logical Fallacies of Common Religious Arguments
There aren't positive arguments for atheism. There aren't any for theism. That's how atheism comes about.
And I wouldn't consider that an ad hominem. It was more of a summary of the numerous refutations he was given by every other atheist in the community with the patience to do so. But MAYBE.
And I wouldn't consider that an ad hominem. It was more of a summary of the numerous refutations he was given by every other atheist in the community with the patience to do so. But MAYBE.
By: Hier
Re: Logical Fallacies of Common Religious Arguments
What smug little turd slipping in the last word in there.
By: thorpii
Re: Logical Fallacies of Common Religious Arguments
What, you mean "veni, vidi, vici, bithches"? Oh come on! I think I deserve a little bit of smugness for not resorting to a word like "turd".
By: Hier
Re: Logical Fallacies of Common Religious Arguments
Religion today is no more than a way of controlling the masses.
For many believers I guess it is about the teachings of a lot of good moral things and good behaviors to adopt. But at the end of the day you are taught to follow like sheep.
Religion quashes free thought and is responsible for crimes against humanity, hatred and most of the conflict in the world today.
To be religious does not make you a good person, in fact you can do something bad and be forgiven for it!
Most religions are ripped off from ancient Egyptian astrology and zodiac worship, including Christianity.
www.zeitgeistmovie.com/
But hey, to each his own!
For many believers I guess it is about the teachings of a lot of good moral things and good behaviors to adopt. But at the end of the day you are taught to follow like sheep.
Religion quashes free thought and is responsible for crimes against humanity, hatred and most of the conflict in the world today.
To be religious does not make you a good person, in fact you can do something bad and be forgiven for it!
Most religions are ripped off from ancient Egyptian astrology and zodiac worship, including Christianity.
www.zeitgeistmovie.com/
But hey, to each his own!
By: mattrass
Re: Logical Fallacies of Common Religious Arguments
While Zeitgeist is an occasionally informative movie, it's tainted by itself. The 9/11 attacks were not some sort of "inside job".
By: Hier
Re: Logical Fallacies of Common Religious Arguments
Celebrating the birth of Christ i.e. Christmas, is actually adopted from a pagan festival, who'd a thunk it ?
The bible does teach good behavior and forgiveness and love etc etc. but i've yet to see so called "christians" practice all of the teachings of the bible, i don't see them stoning people or anything. I rarely see love thy neighbour to people who are non-believers.
I myself believe in God, but i think I'm boned if i do or do not follow a religion. and by this i mean they all can't be right, its gotta be one and if i follow one then i'm fucked and if i don't i'm also fucked. Though i do hope i'm in the good books with God by simply leading a good life and treating others with respect. Hopefully by not following any religion and making my own decisions will i be on the right "path"
The bible does teach good behavior and forgiveness and love etc etc. but i've yet to see so called "christians" practice all of the teachings of the bible, i don't see them stoning people or anything. I rarely see love thy neighbour to people who are non-believers.
I myself believe in God, but i think I'm boned if i do or do not follow a religion. and by this i mean they all can't be right, its gotta be one and if i follow one then i'm fucked and if i don't i'm also fucked. Though i do hope i'm in the good books with God by simply leading a good life and treating others with respect. Hopefully by not following any religion and making my own decisions will i be on the right "path"
By: D3NIS
Re: Logical Fallacies of Common Religious Arguments
"Though i do hope i'm in the good books with God by simply leading a good life and treating others with respect."
If there is a God, you and me both, brother.
As for the bible? I think there's about as much good as bad. But, luckily for me, as an atheist I can ignore (without contradiction) the nasty bits and absorb the insight of the good.
If there is a God, you and me both, brother.
As for the bible? I think there's about as much good as bad. But, luckily for me, as an atheist I can ignore (without contradiction) the nasty bits and absorb the insight of the good.
By: Hier
