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7 Year Old Plays Beethoven
Seven year old Rachel performs Beethoven's "Six Variations" flawlessly at a winner's concert in September 2005 .
May 2, 2007 8:05 AM
Re: 7 Year Old Plays Beethoven
Music tends to give one a false sense of accomplishment -- and I don't think I would take my kid to piano lessons. You just watch these people get caught up in memorizing without understanding the genius of some of these composers -- the good ones wrote music for musicians, and not so their works can be memorized and they can be heard worldwide.
Not that 'jazz', or so called 'music history' is that much better -- since they encourage the myth of 'self-expression' and the belief that music went through 'eras', as if each era overcame the limitations of the one before to arrive at what passes for 'free expression' today. There is a repressive hypothesis in music, too. In fact, Bach and Mozart are still contemporary, are they not?
Not that 'jazz', or so called 'music history' is that much better -- since they encourage the myth of 'self-expression' and the belief that music went through 'eras', as if each era overcame the limitations of the one before to arrive at what passes for 'free expression' today. There is a repressive hypothesis in music, too. In fact, Bach and Mozart are still contemporary, are they not?
By: q335r49
Re: 7 Year Old Plays Beethoven
whatever dude.
I think a 7 year old is pretty capable of expressing a wide range of emotion through many means including music. While she might not fully comprehend the cultural significance of this, reducing her to a music box is belittling in a way that reeks of jealousy.
The myth of self expression? wha?
I think a 7 year old is pretty capable of expressing a wide range of emotion through many means including music. While she might not fully comprehend the cultural significance of this, reducing her to a music box is belittling in a way that reeks of jealousy.
The myth of self expression? wha?
By: bryan
Re: 7 Year Old Plays Beethoven
You sound like some creepy professor who stands around in parks taking lollypops off of kids because you want them to "realise there is no actual lollypop, and instead your pitiful cries are indeed an example of clause and effect, with the lollypop being the cause and your sobbing, wailing cries the effect. Oh do stop crying child you're embarrassing yourself."
Leave the poor girl alone, she doesn't deserve to be thrust into your perverse intellectual world at age 7, just because she can memorise and play a great classical work.
Leave the poor girl alone, she doesn't deserve to be thrust into your perverse intellectual world at age 7, just because she can memorise and play a great classical work.
By: dazed_youth
Re: 7 Year Old Plays Beethoven
I must conclude that you are being an idiot on purpose. Bach and Mozart are contemporary? Thats funny. So as not to confuse anyone, just because someone is playing your music even after you die doesn't qualify you to be a contemporary. And thats the whole gist about contemporary music. You have to be alive today in our present time to be considered a contemporary musician. Or contemporary artist even. Its the art of OUR times. Bach and Vivaldi were contemporaries in their day but not today.
I don't understand your comment about the myth of self-expression but your points on the obscurity of musical periods and the practice of young musicians (and old) memorizing music just to play it are spot on.
Being someone that attends at least 2 sometimes many more concerts a week, of a plethora of genres, I find your hackneyed comments on the state of musical expression short-sighted and ignorant.
I don't understand your comment about the myth of self-expression but your points on the obscurity of musical periods and the practice of young musicians (and old) memorizing music just to play it are spot on.
Being someone that attends at least 2 sometimes many more concerts a week, of a plethora of genres, I find your hackneyed comments on the state of musical expression short-sighted and ignorant.
By: spinier
Re: 7 Year Old Plays Beethoven
Do you really think that music lessons consist of nothing but rote memorization? How sad.
Where do you think "understanding" comes from, anyway? No one can hope to understand any artist without first becoming intimately familiar with his work.
"The good ones wrote music for musicians" -- so is this girl not a musician, then? If she's not, perhaps you'll tell us what she should be doing differently if she aspires to become one. You obviously think she's on the wrong track.
Your attempt at drawing a connection between music history and the repressive hypothesis shows only that you understand neither.
Where do you think "understanding" comes from, anyway? No one can hope to understand any artist without first becoming intimately familiar with his work.
"The good ones wrote music for musicians" -- so is this girl not a musician, then? If she's not, perhaps you'll tell us what she should be doing differently if she aspires to become one. You obviously think she's on the wrong track.
Your attempt at drawing a connection between music history and the repressive hypothesis shows only that you understand neither.
By: quisph
Re: 7 Year Old Plays Beethoven
I agree with the original poster. Music is stupid, and this girl wasted her time on it when she could have been learning to color in the lines. Pfft.
By: hypersapien
Re: 7 Year Old Plays Beethoven
She's 7 give her a break, you're talking like she's meant to know everything there is about music. You never know, she might grow up to be a well accomplished composer herself. You're looking waaay too much into this. She looks like a girl who just really enjoys playing the piano. And by the looks of it, -by that i mean how well she is playing- she has to love it and play it everyday to be as good as she is.
For someone with tiny hands she can reach a hell of alot of keys. Quite impressive in my opinion
For someone with tiny hands she can reach a hell of alot of keys. Quite impressive in my opinion
By: D3NIS
Re: 7 Year Old Plays Beethoven
That's cool. Surely, her parents might have put her in music lessons, but later on she might realize the utility of having vast quantities of classical and jazz music on demand in her head. Bunches of contemporary musical artists were classically trained. Some of them may have been forced into music lessons, but people in general tend to find a way to utilize what skills they have to express themselves. The programmer uses code and wits. The scientist uses enormously expensive technology and wits. The musician uses instruments - and wits. People will express themselves, and being locked into this classical music thing, this girl may realize it as her most viable mode of expression. She could be the next Bjork.
Children rarely realize wtf they're doing until their teen years anyways. If it were up to them, they'd be farting around watching t.v. or playing video games. She won't realize the value of this over reminiscing about how impossibly hard Contra was until she's older. A kudo to this girl and her parents.
Children rarely realize wtf they're doing until their teen years anyways. If it were up to them, they'd be farting around watching t.v. or playing video games. She won't realize the value of this over reminiscing about how impossibly hard Contra was until she's older. A kudo to this girl and her parents.
By: Wondahboy
Re: 7 Year Old Plays Beethoven
I honestly think a girl that age playing Beethoven flawlessly is pretty impressive. She has talent I never had... Oh wait a minute... I've never had any talent in anything. That's why I have no life... oh yeah. What a bummer.. :(
By: Dr_Shattnin
Re: 7 Year Old Plays Beethoven
maybe you have talent... but no wits. *points to Wondahboy's comment*
By: samplesauce
Re: 7 Year Old Plays Beethoven
My critique is not against musicians, but against the educational system: Piano Lessons. I've taken piano lessons, and high school music education, and it is horrible and worthless. And parents -- pushing their kids just so that they can parade them around as wiz kids is ... utterly horrible.
Of course, this happened to Mozart and he was and still is the greatest composer ever, so, in the end, true enough, its up to an individual genius to thrive wherever there is tradition.
But tradition itself is still hateful. What do I mean by music appreciation rather than memorization? Take a song that you like:
1) Identify an 8 bar passage you like
2) Learn to play it
3) Try variations and see if it still sounds good
4) Try to figure out why exactly it sounds good
5) Find the same patterns in other songs, and see if it is expressed differently
6) Try to understand if it 'says' anything
etc. etc.
And 8 bars is more than enough for a month of work... and infinitely more useful than memorizing another person's composition.
And this is what I mean by "music for musicians": Great musicians wrote their music PRECISELY to be closely analyzed... NOT to be used in hollywood tearjerkers, or to tempt that whore called mass appeal, NOT for virtuosos. But for other musicians, and close readers, and philosopers and artists.
Of course, this happened to Mozart and he was and still is the greatest composer ever, so, in the end, true enough, its up to an individual genius to thrive wherever there is tradition.
But tradition itself is still hateful. What do I mean by music appreciation rather than memorization? Take a song that you like:
1) Identify an 8 bar passage you like
2) Learn to play it
3) Try variations and see if it still sounds good
4) Try to figure out why exactly it sounds good
5) Find the same patterns in other songs, and see if it is expressed differently
6) Try to understand if it 'says' anything
etc. etc.
And 8 bars is more than enough for a month of work... and infinitely more useful than memorizing another person's composition.
And this is what I mean by "music for musicians": Great musicians wrote their music PRECISELY to be closely analyzed... NOT to be used in hollywood tearjerkers, or to tempt that whore called mass appeal, NOT for virtuosos. But for other musicians, and close readers, and philosopers and artists.
By: q335r49
Re: 7 Year Old Plays Beethoven
That's more or less my approach to music. But it also helps to know basic music theory as a framework within which to "figure out" why it sounds good. Without theory and proficiency in an instrument, learning to play a song is pretty impossibly daunting. It takes time for your ear and mind to just figure out a song.
And who are the "great" musicians? Sounds subjective. If by great you mean the wittiest, then maybe they found fulfillment in nodding to other musicians (like the writers of epics used to nod to other writers of epics). But I wouldn't describe not only who are the great musicians, but also their motivations. That's pretty presumptuous. I'm not great, but still, I definitely don't write for other people to pick my music apart. Not everyone is so cerebral about music, and this includes musicians. It can be stifling, man. Daft Punk's Discovery album is on continual rotation in my cd player, and I enjoy it on a very basic level; level with a dancefloor.
How music is used and enjoyed is up to whoever is listening to it. For all we know that child enjoys "covering" songs; that's what it is, isn't it? I enjoy covering songs, and loads of famous artists cover songs. You learn a lot by covering songs. I've developed much of my guitaring style by mimicking techniques picked up while learning to cover a song.
Basically, you might think about taking a chill pill. Relax, and let people do what they'll do with minimal commentary. Joseph Conrad wrote in Heart of Darkness that "We live, as we dream - alone..." You'll never understand the little girl and why she plays piano, nor will you understand why everyone listens to music. Some crazy fucks think music should be analyzed in a sociological approach. I think they're thinking too much about it, but whatever, so be it.
So really what I'm saying is, if you enjoy music by making broad generalizations about it and the people who play or write it, then fine. Good day.
And who are the "great" musicians? Sounds subjective. If by great you mean the wittiest, then maybe they found fulfillment in nodding to other musicians (like the writers of epics used to nod to other writers of epics). But I wouldn't describe not only who are the great musicians, but also their motivations. That's pretty presumptuous. I'm not great, but still, I definitely don't write for other people to pick my music apart. Not everyone is so cerebral about music, and this includes musicians. It can be stifling, man. Daft Punk's Discovery album is on continual rotation in my cd player, and I enjoy it on a very basic level; level with a dancefloor.
How music is used and enjoyed is up to whoever is listening to it. For all we know that child enjoys "covering" songs; that's what it is, isn't it? I enjoy covering songs, and loads of famous artists cover songs. You learn a lot by covering songs. I've developed much of my guitaring style by mimicking techniques picked up while learning to cover a song.
Basically, you might think about taking a chill pill. Relax, and let people do what they'll do with minimal commentary. Joseph Conrad wrote in Heart of Darkness that "We live, as we dream - alone..." You'll never understand the little girl and why she plays piano, nor will you understand why everyone listens to music. Some crazy fucks think music should be analyzed in a sociological approach. I think they're thinking too much about it, but whatever, so be it.
So really what I'm saying is, if you enjoy music by making broad generalizations about it and the people who play or write it, then fine. Good day.
By: Wondahboy
Re: 7 Year Old Plays Beethoven
WondahBoy:
Let's pause and consider that heart of darkness quote -- I'm not saying your interpretation is wrong, but, since we both love that book, perhaps you will be swayed by me speaking through or interpreting Conrad rather than me speaking as if I invented the emotion of hatred.
Heart of Darkness is about a State of Emergency -- and most certiainly NOT about relaxing and letting things be. Conrad saw darkness everywhere -- he sees it whenever there is passion (the Intended, mourning for Kurtz), whenever there is promise (Kurtz himself, the man of empty promises -- the young piano player, creature of promise and potential).
Let's not forget that Kurtz was described as "basically a great musician". What does Conrad mean by this, in the general context of the novel?
Music, so the masses say, touches the soul. Yet, does not Kurtz also 'touch the soul'? Has he not touched the soul of the Intended, and of the Russian? And does his not voice ring out from the inner station like wonderful music, like the voice of promise?
The masses say: don't overthink music. It is a cultural treasure, it is pure 'play', enjoyment. Music is 'subjective', it is impossible to analyze. Important issues are abortion, foreign policy, and gay marriage -- music need not be thought.
Yet, one of the deepest thinkers of the 20th century, thrown into the heart of a horribly exploitative and murderous regime, chose to write -- literature. MERELY a novel, MERELY aesthetics, MERELY 'subjective' words about emotions.
In the same way that Conrad recognized the seriousness of literature, and of music, great musicians recognized the seriousness of music. Music, like literature, is INVISIBLE -- that is to say, thought to be subjective.
We have nothing to say when it comes to music or literature, most of the time. Yet, the close analysis of literature is precisely the making visible of the invisible, so that we can no longer get away with stupid expressions like "beautiful music that touches the soul".
For Marlow at the end of the story, in his encounter with the Intended, we can say -- he sees what others do not-- he sees the face of Kurtz, and hears his whispers everywhere. This is the ultimate purpose of his book: to allow you to see the darkness that is everywhere.
BEFORE the stupidity of politicians and their endless clamouring (and bad music itself, with its sound and fury, signifying nothing), the great artists and musicians work at the foundations, to bring the invisible into light.
I dont want to risk becoming a Kurtz figure myself (full of sound and fury) and a much closer analysis of these issues is necessary -- but for now, I'll just throw it out there, kind of irresponsibly. But, the state of emergency is everywhere, even in Europe -- and Kurtz, who is a great musician, who spoke with endless eloquence, is the light that can reveal this. This is the meaning of the end of the Heart of Darkness. Feel free to email me at my user name at gmail.com! Thanks, Leon
Let's pause and consider that heart of darkness quote -- I'm not saying your interpretation is wrong, but, since we both love that book, perhaps you will be swayed by me speaking through or interpreting Conrad rather than me speaking as if I invented the emotion of hatred.
Heart of Darkness is about a State of Emergency -- and most certiainly NOT about relaxing and letting things be. Conrad saw darkness everywhere -- he sees it whenever there is passion (the Intended, mourning for Kurtz), whenever there is promise (Kurtz himself, the man of empty promises -- the young piano player, creature of promise and potential).
Let's not forget that Kurtz was described as "basically a great musician". What does Conrad mean by this, in the general context of the novel?
Music, so the masses say, touches the soul. Yet, does not Kurtz also 'touch the soul'? Has he not touched the soul of the Intended, and of the Russian? And does his not voice ring out from the inner station like wonderful music, like the voice of promise?
The masses say: don't overthink music. It is a cultural treasure, it is pure 'play', enjoyment. Music is 'subjective', it is impossible to analyze. Important issues are abortion, foreign policy, and gay marriage -- music need not be thought.
Yet, one of the deepest thinkers of the 20th century, thrown into the heart of a horribly exploitative and murderous regime, chose to write -- literature. MERELY a novel, MERELY aesthetics, MERELY 'subjective' words about emotions.
In the same way that Conrad recognized the seriousness of literature, and of music, great musicians recognized the seriousness of music. Music, like literature, is INVISIBLE -- that is to say, thought to be subjective.
We have nothing to say when it comes to music or literature, most of the time. Yet, the close analysis of literature is precisely the making visible of the invisible, so that we can no longer get away with stupid expressions like "beautiful music that touches the soul".
For Marlow at the end of the story, in his encounter with the Intended, we can say -- he sees what others do not-- he sees the face of Kurtz, and hears his whispers everywhere. This is the ultimate purpose of his book: to allow you to see the darkness that is everywhere.
BEFORE the stupidity of politicians and their endless clamouring (and bad music itself, with its sound and fury, signifying nothing), the great artists and musicians work at the foundations, to bring the invisible into light.
I dont want to risk becoming a Kurtz figure myself (full of sound and fury) and a much closer analysis of these issues is necessary -- but for now, I'll just throw it out there, kind of irresponsibly. But, the state of emergency is everywhere, even in Europe -- and Kurtz, who is a great musician, who spoke with endless eloquence, is the light that can reveal this. This is the meaning of the end of the Heart of Darkness. Feel free to email me at my user name at gmail.com! Thanks, Leon
By: q335r49
Re: 7 Year Old Plays Beethoven
Virtually all composers (with the exception of a few post-/modernists and the occasional madman) wrote their music with the foremost intention that it would be performed. Period.
Maybe it would help if you would explain where you are basing your assumption that this girl has done nothing more than merely memorize the piece. I dare say she could probably offer a better analysis of it than you could. The same goes for your uncharitable assumptions about her parents, which I'm inclined to chalk up to a massive chip on your shoulder.
I would not advise anyone who is serious about music to follow the approach you outline above, any more than I would advise an aspiring scientist to educate himself by attempting to re-derive all of the known laws of nature with his own backyard experiments. He would spend a lifetime on this pointless endeavor, and learn only a fraction of what he would learn in one semester of physics.
The same goes for music. Speaking from experience, everything I naively thought I had figured out about music theory, on my own, in high school, was rendered obsolete in a matter of weeks once I got to college. I couldn't deny that the traditional explanations worked a hell of a lot better than mine did, and they were a hell of a lot easier to come by.
That's the value of tradition: you needn't reinvent the wheel. You can stand on the shoulders of giants, and see farther.
Maybe it would help if you would explain where you are basing your assumption that this girl has done nothing more than merely memorize the piece. I dare say she could probably offer a better analysis of it than you could. The same goes for your uncharitable assumptions about her parents, which I'm inclined to chalk up to a massive chip on your shoulder.
I would not advise anyone who is serious about music to follow the approach you outline above, any more than I would advise an aspiring scientist to educate himself by attempting to re-derive all of the known laws of nature with his own backyard experiments. He would spend a lifetime on this pointless endeavor, and learn only a fraction of what he would learn in one semester of physics.
The same goes for music. Speaking from experience, everything I naively thought I had figured out about music theory, on my own, in high school, was rendered obsolete in a matter of weeks once I got to college. I couldn't deny that the traditional explanations worked a hell of a lot better than mine did, and they were a hell of a lot easier to come by.
That's the value of tradition: you needn't reinvent the wheel. You can stand on the shoulders of giants, and see farther.
By: quisph
Re: 7 Year Old Plays Beethoven
No -- Great musicians DID NOT write to be performed, but for other musicians. Bad musicians wrote to be performed -- to touch the soul, to stir up emotions. Like Rage against the machine. "Period".
By: q335r49
Re: 7 Year Old Plays Beethoven
Can you even name ten "great" musicians, without outside help? I somehow doubt it.
Thinking as you do, don't you find it strange that great musicians took such care to ensure that their music was performable, if they didn't intend for it to be performed?
Thinking as you do, don't you find it strange that great musicians took such care to ensure that their music was performable, if they didn't intend for it to be performed?
By: quisph
Re: 7 Year Old Plays Beethoven
Nah it's the other way around. Plenty of wits, yes. But talent, hell no. Believe me I tried. One of the only things I can do well is piss people off.... hahaha!
By: Dr_Shattnin
Re: 7 Year Old Plays Beethoven
Rachel is merely, more than likely, just a utility of her parents. For her to perform that piece undoubtedly took years of practice... years for her sets her back to a very young age, an age where children can't make their own decisions. Poor Rachel has probably lost most of her childhood, and will continue to lose it at the expense of her show-boating parents.
Although the her performance was purely memorization, those memorization skills are fairly notable for that age... that is assuming she is not autistic and has adequate knowledge of everything a normal 7 yr old would have.
In general, I have noticed that too much credit is given to an individual for a remarkable performance in a singular category. What is truly impressive is when a person has mastery in multiple categories with no relation to each other.
Still... it was nice to hear such a great piece performed very well.
Although the her performance was purely memorization, those memorization skills are fairly notable for that age... that is assuming she is not autistic and has adequate knowledge of everything a normal 7 yr old would have.
In general, I have noticed that too much credit is given to an individual for a remarkable performance in a singular category. What is truly impressive is when a person has mastery in multiple categories with no relation to each other.
Still... it was nice to hear such a great piece performed very well.
By: jtraik
