Glenn Beck talks to Penn Jillette
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Discussion and debate on political spectrum and responsibility.
Jan 24, 2013 7:36 AM
Re: Glenn Beck talks to Penn Jillette
The rhetoric on display here is very reminiscent of slavery era Southern obsession with 'the constitution', property rights and 'freedom'. In the run up to the civil war everyone was blabbering on and on about freedom and none more so than the Southerners. Slavery = freedom. Denying people's human rights = freedom. For people like Ron Paul and Jillette even discrimination based on race, creed or sex by businesses = a personal freedom. They will deny again and again that American freedom that the vast majority of Americans cherish and believe in wasn't born in 1776, but rather after the civil war and to a lesser extent after the passing of the civil rights act in the 1960's. The constitution was amended on numerous occasions and is interpreted differently today, partly because it was meant to be a living document and partly because it was extremely racist, sexist and designed to enshrine vast inequality, though not before the law. "We, the people" doesn't mean what it says.
Somehow all Americans (perhaps all people everywhere, but I don't think so) frame every issue in terms of their version of 'freedom'. How about human rights? When will those become the American bible? Or how about the fact that 'small government' removes even the possibility of a people having any meaningful say in what goes on in their country - a return to the mindset of 'the founders' indeed. Penn Jillette is so intellectually bankrupt that he uses the terms 'anarchism' and 'anarchy' interchangeably.. Don't be surprised when he doesn't point out that we'd pay a huge price for what he *labels* 'freedom'. Who needs public schools for all, a functioning, affordable healthcare system for all, a social safety net, worker safety laws, sane environmental policies,..?
But, hey, he's a nice guy who would just like everyone to get along, all bound by a failed, outdated and a (by today's standards) anti-democratic idea of freedom, all under the boot of free capital. MURICAH!
What an idiot fest this was. I protest. Boooo!
Somehow all Americans (perhaps all people everywhere, but I don't think so) frame every issue in terms of their version of 'freedom'. How about human rights? When will those become the American bible? Or how about the fact that 'small government' removes even the possibility of a people having any meaningful say in what goes on in their country - a return to the mindset of 'the founders' indeed. Penn Jillette is so intellectually bankrupt that he uses the terms 'anarchism' and 'anarchy' interchangeably.. Don't be surprised when he doesn't point out that we'd pay a huge price for what he *labels* 'freedom'. Who needs public schools for all, a functioning, affordable healthcare system for all, a social safety net, worker safety laws, sane environmental policies,..?
But, hey, he's a nice guy who would just like everyone to get along, all bound by a failed, outdated and a (by today's standards) anti-democratic idea of freedom, all under the boot of free capital. MURICAH!
What an idiot fest this was. I protest. Boooo!
By: wadadde
Re: Glenn Beck talks to Penn Jillette
Fine comments, Wadadde, and a passionately intellectual response. As you will note from my posted vids, I choose items that will encourage discourse, even if it involves the changing state of children shows. What I do not do is throw out the baby with the bathwater; Spam has thusly removed himself from such discourse.
Small governmanet can actually lead to elitism and dictatorship. Big government can lead to overblown beauracracy and fascism...and visa versa, there is no simple formula for government structure when it is comprised of humans.
I do like charts as does Beck, but mine are more like webs or other non-linear imagings; the beginning on his chart, historically, was a response not to anarchy, but to monarchy, which was perceived as extreme big government. However, the persons and methods of revolutionary thought, were far far from a representational democracy, there were secret meetings and bully tactics. A government can also become what it fights against.
Beck has an item or two of value to teach, as does Jillette. The latter, for exemple, is not only a Libertarian, certainly no moron. He is a magician and an atheist, both worty of further exploration. Libertarianism itself is not my cup of Tea, but good things can come from bad ideas, welcome to the parodox of human existence.
Re: Glenn Beck talks to Penn Jillette
As an aside, the term 'big government' is extremely unhelpful. Both of the people in the video embrace it, which is one great reason for not watching it. 'Conservatives' get it rammed into their heads that high taxation, low efficiency, high corruption and a lack of respect for civil liberties all go together. The evidence for that is as good as non-existent in the age of democracy. Once people get out of the crazy zone (which from my point of view includes American libertarianism) they're able to examine the facts of politics. Until then they're locked into things like the myth of the wise savages, this idea that the ideal society has already been invented in an earlier, more primitive, though weirdly more civilized age... I was going to whine some more, but I don't think there's any use to it.
Anyway, if this were a site often frequented by ignorant, right-wing Christians I'd have grudgingly welcomed your video, but since none of us are trying to claim America for Christ, I think it's safe to say that we're not going to learn anything useful from the discussion between these two gentlemen.
Anyway, if this were a site often frequented by ignorant, right-wing Christians I'd have grudgingly welcomed your video, but since none of us are trying to claim America for Christ, I think it's safe to say that we're not going to learn anything useful from the discussion between these two gentlemen.
By: wadadde
Re: Glenn Beck talks to Penn Jillette
Aren't you tired of being full of yourself?
By: spam_vigilante
