Neil deGrasse Tyson: Atheist or Agnostic?
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http://bigthink.com/
Astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson claims the title "scientist" above all other "ists." And yet, he says he is "constantly claimed by atheists." So where does he stand? "Neil deGrasse, widely claimed by atheists, is actually an agnostic."
Directed / Produced by
Elizabeth Rodd and Jonathan Fowler
Astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson claims the title "scientist" above all other "ists." And yet, he says he is "constantly claimed by atheists." So where does he stand? "Neil deGrasse, widely claimed by atheists, is actually an agnostic."
Directed / Produced by
Elizabeth Rodd and Jonathan Fowler
May 20, 2012 7:20 PM
Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson: Atheist or Agnostic?
I'm atheist. Dr. Tyson falsely equates atheism with fanaticism.
I'm atheist. I am not a militant atheist. That does not make me agnostic.
I'm atheist. I am without belief in God.
Dr. Tyson considers himself to be agnostic. That merely means that he is uncertain of the existence of God. It is not a toned-down form of atheism.
I'm atheist. I am not a militant atheist. That does not make me agnostic.
I'm atheist. I am without belief in God.
Dr. Tyson considers himself to be agnostic. That merely means that he is uncertain of the existence of God. It is not a toned-down form of atheism.
By: spam_vigilante
Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson: Atheist or Agnostic?
You think he falsely equates atheism with fanaticism because you are falsely equating 'active', the word he actually used, with fanaticism.
By: Razorback
Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson: Atheist or Agnostic?
Not so. I think Dr. Tyson was giving the impression throughout the entire clip that atheists are always proselytizing and despise religion. Most of us are fine with others and their faith. All of us choose to reason rather than believe in fairy tales.
By: spam_vigilante
Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson: Atheist or Agnostic?
Though the same could be said of many religious people, could it not? There are lots of religious people who are tolerant of other faiths and other perspectives, yet a lot of atheists also lump all religious persons together, just as many atheists get lumped together.
By: the_monk
Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson: Atheist or Agnostic?
"a lot of atheists" do this
"many religious people" do that
blah blah blah.
You ought to instead acknowledge that he's right and you're not. Tyson was essentially actively and purposefully contributing to the poisoning of the term "atheism", mainly by failing to draw proper distinctions. In the clip he explained why he felt the need to echo some of the nasty generalization about atheist that are popular with the average "moderate" nitwit. He's exclusively looking out for nr1. That's why he apparently feels the need to side with the believer-friendly view that atheism can't encompass agnosticism and that "real" (gnostic) atheism is somehow negative in all sorts of ways, while agnosticism (which should mean agnostic atheism) isn't.
"Gnostic - Claim of knowledge
Agnostic - Claim of not knowing"
So why is there even a term for not knowing. I mean, there isn't a word for people who don't play golf, so...
*facepalm*
"many religious people" do that
blah blah blah.
You ought to instead acknowledge that he's right and you're not. Tyson was essentially actively and purposefully contributing to the poisoning of the term "atheism", mainly by failing to draw proper distinctions. In the clip he explained why he felt the need to echo some of the nasty generalization about atheist that are popular with the average "moderate" nitwit. He's exclusively looking out for nr1. That's why he apparently feels the need to side with the believer-friendly view that atheism can't encompass agnosticism and that "real" (gnostic) atheism is somehow negative in all sorts of ways, while agnosticism (which should mean agnostic atheism) isn't.
"Gnostic - Claim of knowledge
Agnostic - Claim of not knowing"
So why is there even a term for not knowing. I mean, there isn't a word for people who don't play golf, so...
*facepalm*
By: wadadde
Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson: Atheist or Agnostic?
I don't think I ever displayed any disagreement with Spam. I'm just pointing out that the feelings he's displaying go both ways.
Personally, I don't believe in God (at least not some dogmatic man in the sky), but that doesn't mean I'm an atheist. Atheism is the active belief that there is no God. I just feel like it's wiser to admit what I don't know when I don't feel the question has an answer.
Personally, I don't believe in God (at least not some dogmatic man in the sky), but that doesn't mean I'm an atheist. Atheism is the active belief that there is no God. I just feel like it's wiser to admit what I don't know when I don't feel the question has an answer.
By: the_monk
Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson: Atheist or Agnostic?
That's just incorrect.
I'm not sure that I understand the term "active belief". However, I do feel comfortable pointing out that your definition of atheism doesn't cover all the bases and is one that I'd never heard before. Just open a dictionary. Atheism is the rejection of the existence of gods, or the lack of belief in gods.
From what you're telling me it seems you could be classified as an agnostic atheist or as some sort of deist maybe.
Question. I understand that there are questions to which we cannot know the answer (yet). But a question about reality to which no answer exists? Is that meant literally? It sounds amazing but what possible reason could a bright person like you have for believing in the existence of such questions? I'm probably reading to much into it. You're probably just (a negative/weak atheist who's) pointing out that the nature/basis of reality is probably far too alien to truly grasp. If it's not that, then you're talking mystical nonsense, I'm afraid.
I'm not sure that I understand the term "active belief". However, I do feel comfortable pointing out that your definition of atheism doesn't cover all the bases and is one that I'd never heard before. Just open a dictionary. Atheism is the rejection of the existence of gods, or the lack of belief in gods.
From what you're telling me it seems you could be classified as an agnostic atheist or as some sort of deist maybe.
Question. I understand that there are questions to which we cannot know the answer (yet). But a question about reality to which no answer exists? Is that meant literally? It sounds amazing but what possible reason could a bright person like you have for believing in the existence of such questions? I'm probably reading to much into it. You're probably just (a negative/weak atheist who's) pointing out that the nature/basis of reality is probably far too alien to truly grasp. If it's not that, then you're talking mystical nonsense, I'm afraid.
By: wadadde
Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson: Atheist or Agnostic?
Is the universe hatched out of a cosmic egg laid by an invisible sea turtle which insists we sprinkle ourselves annually with sea water in celebration? Is it spoken into existence by a bearded man sitting on a throne, who takes an inordinate interest in our naughty bits? Is it a spark which flew from the the workbench anvil of the Great Blacksmith, for whom we carry ceremonial iron ingots?
Probably not, probably not, and probably not.
I suppose that makes me a triple agnostic. Cool.
Probably not, probably not, and probably not.
I suppose that makes me a triple agnostic. Cool.
Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson: Atheist or Agnostic?
This comes pretty close to describing my own feelings on the subject.
By: the_monk
Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson: Atheist or Agnostic?
Cunt.
I seem to completely agree with Spam on this one.
There's nothing wrong about -isms. Saying otherwise is just childish nonsense. What? Calling myself a capitalist or an optimist would imply that I don't think for myself? WHAT the fuck?
If he BELIEVES that there is no god then he is an atheist. If he goes on to admit that he doesn't KNOW whether there's a "god", then he a motherfucking agnostic atheist. If he doesn't have any opinion or belief either way, then he's disturbingly apathetic and closed-minded.
Fine, he doesn't like to be put in a box. Tough luck, the world does that for him. No amount of pissing on social activism will allow him to escape from the fact that he's an atheist.
Atheism is NOT a philosophy. Atheism is NOT a movement. Atheism implies NOTHING other than what it is, namely a single position on a single issue.
So why does he treat it as if it is a cum rag?
Because he's a cunt. That's why.
I seem to completely agree with Spam on this one.
There's nothing wrong about -isms. Saying otherwise is just childish nonsense. What? Calling myself a capitalist or an optimist would imply that I don't think for myself? WHAT the fuck?
If he BELIEVES that there is no god then he is an atheist. If he goes on to admit that he doesn't KNOW whether there's a "god", then he a motherfucking agnostic atheist. If he doesn't have any opinion or belief either way, then he's disturbingly apathetic and closed-minded.
Fine, he doesn't like to be put in a box. Tough luck, the world does that for him. No amount of pissing on social activism will allow him to escape from the fact that he's an atheist.
Atheism is NOT a philosophy. Atheism is NOT a movement. Atheism implies NOTHING other than what it is, namely a single position on a single issue.
So why does he treat it as if it is a cum rag?
Because he's a cunt. That's why.
By: wadadde
Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson: Atheist or Agnostic?
Who's the cunt here?
Maybe he's misinformed. Maybe he's got other priorities in life than to understand all the subtleties of language about religious non-belief. He's probably an atheist without knowing it. What he says is misinformed, not cum raggy. Or maybe, just maybe, I'm misinformed and he's right.
> "If he doesn't have any opinion or belief either way, then he's disturbingly apathetic and closed-minded."
Really? Is that really what you meant to say? If so, then who's closed-minded? If not, then cut the guy some slack.
Maybe he's misinformed. Maybe he's got other priorities in life than to understand all the subtleties of language about religious non-belief. He's probably an atheist without knowing it. What he says is misinformed, not cum raggy. Or maybe, just maybe, I'm misinformed and he's right.
> "If he doesn't have any opinion or belief either way, then he's disturbingly apathetic and closed-minded."
Really? Is that really what you meant to say? If so, then who's closed-minded? If not, then cut the guy some slack.
Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson: Atheist or Agnostic?
Are you really interested in a reply? Cause, all I'm able to gather from what you said is that
1. I am what I call others, just because
2. I owe him the courtesy to cover his
statements with a blanket of generosity, while he ridicules, mis-characterizes and belittles the actions of those that I admire.
3. it's somehow possible for someone who contemplates the origin and nature of the universe as a profession, not to have opinions or beliefs about the validity of core religious claims.
He's not some backwater nobody, is he. He has many personal and public interactions with some of the brightest "active atheists" alive today. How would it be reasonable for me to assume that he's just "misinformed". Like, "oops atheism is not at all what I believed it to be". Loqi, you've got to do better than that. You're giving me nothing but an insult.
I understand Tyson's (professional) desire to distance himself from those who are dedicated to stirring up controversy. However, he goes beyond that. I don't have to respect that. If you're a prominent popular intellectual, you owe it to everyone to speak knowledgeably, especially about the things you are in opposition to.
I don't expect a response. I'd like one, but what could you possibly say except "sorry"? My arguments have been nothing but reasonable.
1. I am what I call others, just because
2. I owe him the courtesy to cover his
statements with a blanket of generosity, while he ridicules, mis-characterizes and belittles the actions of those that I admire.
3. it's somehow possible for someone who contemplates the origin and nature of the universe as a profession, not to have opinions or beliefs about the validity of core religious claims.
He's not some backwater nobody, is he. He has many personal and public interactions with some of the brightest "active atheists" alive today. How would it be reasonable for me to assume that he's just "misinformed". Like, "oops atheism is not at all what I believed it to be". Loqi, you've got to do better than that. You're giving me nothing but an insult.
I understand Tyson's (professional) desire to distance himself from those who are dedicated to stirring up controversy. However, he goes beyond that. I don't have to respect that. If you're a prominent popular intellectual, you owe it to everyone to speak knowledgeably, especially about the things you are in opposition to.
I don't expect a response. I'd like one, but what could you possibly say except "sorry"? My arguments have been nothing but reasonable.
By: wadadde
Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson: Atheist or Agnostic?
Yeah, I guess he is a bit of a cunt.
I watched the video again. It's not completely clear from the editing, but he seems to have brought the topic up himself, without first being asked. If so, he should be prepared to know what the hell he's talking about.
I watched the video again. It's not completely clear from the editing, but he seems to have brought the topic up himself, without first being asked. If so, he should be prepared to know what the hell he's talking about.
Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson: Atheist or Agnostic?
If he is not willing to make a priority of properly informing himself of what these words mean, he should shut his whore mouth about them.
I like Dr. Tyson, but "humility" is not a word that readily springs to mind when I think of him. He's actually a bit of a know-it-all, but as long as he's talking about astrophysics, I have no problem with that. The problem is when he presumes to lecture people on subjects outside his area of expertise. That goes a far step beyond merely being misinformed.
I like Dr. Tyson, but "humility" is not a word that readily springs to mind when I think of him. He's actually a bit of a know-it-all, but as long as he's talking about astrophysics, I have no problem with that. The problem is when he presumes to lecture people on subjects outside his area of expertise. That goes a far step beyond merely being misinformed.
By: quisph
Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson: Atheist or Agnostic?
True enough. He puts his foot in his mouth in this video, making statements of great conviction about topics he doesn't seem to understand.
I don't really know why this video is featured by Big Think. It's really quite lame. Neither entertaining nor enlightening.
I don't really know why this video is featured by Big Think. It's really quite lame. Neither entertaining nor enlightening.
Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson: Atheist or Agnostic?
What a letdown. Tyson is an agnostic atheist.
Let's get this straight. You either believe in god(s) or you don't. It's a choice. If you believe, you're a theist (perhaps a polytheist if it's many gods). If not, you're an atheist. Gnosticism refers to the reason why you either believe or you don't.
Agnostic atheists do not believe enough evidence exists to prove or disprove a god, but they choose not to believe.
Gnostic atheists believe there is significant evidence to disprove the existence of a god, and they choose not to believe due to this.
Agnostic theists do not believe enough evidence exists to prove or disprove a god, but choose to believe.
Gnostic theists believe considerable evidence exists to prove the existence of a god, so they choose to believe.
In general, most theists are gnostic theists. As for atheists, many are gnostic with respect to the known religions, but some are agnostic with respect to the general possibility of some higher power existing. Of course, there are always exceptions.
Let's get this straight. You either believe in god(s) or you don't. It's a choice. If you believe, you're a theist (perhaps a polytheist if it's many gods). If not, you're an atheist. Gnosticism refers to the reason why you either believe or you don't.
Agnostic atheists do not believe enough evidence exists to prove or disprove a god, but they choose not to believe.
Gnostic atheists believe there is significant evidence to disprove the existence of a god, and they choose not to believe due to this.
Agnostic theists do not believe enough evidence exists to prove or disprove a god, but choose to believe.
Gnostic theists believe considerable evidence exists to prove the existence of a god, so they choose to believe.
In general, most theists are gnostic theists. As for atheists, many are gnostic with respect to the known religions, but some are agnostic with respect to the general possibility of some higher power existing. Of course, there are always exceptions.
By: chronomitch
Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson: Atheist or Agnostic?
Agreed, except for the part about belief being a choice. I did not choose to become an atheist. I couldn't choose to believe in a god right now any more than I could will myself to believe that I'm Neil deGrasse Tyson.
By: quisph
Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson: Atheist or Agnostic?
Well, I suppose if you subscribe to certain methods of thought and are intellectually honest, it would be near impossible to "choose" whether or not you believe in a god. That choice is simply a result of the cold, hard logic.
By: chronomitch
Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson: Atheist or Agnostic?
I used to be a Christian, for no good reason. I didn't choose that, either. I really don't think that anyone chooses their beliefs in any meaningful way. It is much more complicated than that.
By: quisph
