Smart Electric Grid with Electric Cars
Loading the player...
Needs Plugin: Flash |
Not Working?
Email This
This video inaugurates Peter Sinclair's new series "Renewable Energy Solution of the Month".
Many seem to think responding to climate change will bring poverty and limit human development. The truth may be exactly the opposite. Moving to a world of where we aren't fighting each other over the last few drops of oil, where energy is free, will mean a better life, with greater opportunities even for an expanding population. If we make the right decisions, we could be on the verge of the most prosperous period in human history.
This video explores how emerging two-way electric grids, in combination with plug-in electric cars could symbiotically reduce the peak daily load, thus eliminating the dirtiest, most expensive power plants.
Many seem to think responding to climate change will bring poverty and limit human development. The truth may be exactly the opposite. Moving to a world of where we aren't fighting each other over the last few drops of oil, where energy is free, will mean a better life, with greater opportunities even for an expanding population. If we make the right decisions, we could be on the verge of the most prosperous period in human history.
This video explores how emerging two-way electric grids, in combination with plug-in electric cars could symbiotically reduce the peak daily load, thus eliminating the dirtiest, most expensive power plants.
Feb 11, 2010 12:38 AM
Re: Smart Electric Grid with Electric Cars
This is a fascinating video about an amazing side effect of a battery-powered automobile industry and a good explanation for why switching to electric vehicles will not mean a higher need for power generation plants.
Great stuff, Loqi!
Great stuff, Loqi!
Re: Smart Electric Grid with Electric Cars
Batteries are not a new energy source. A Battery, is just a different kind of gas tank. You still have to fill it.
By: Voidwar
Re: Smart Electric Grid with Electric Cars
Oh, Void, you're so cuuute sometimes. If TCP/IP were up to the task, I'd reach through the Internet and squeeeze your wittle cheeeks.
Re: Smart Electric Grid with Electric Cars
How much fossil fuel do you reckon they burn refining the metals for the battery ?
Think you'll ever see a hybrid Combine harvesting a field ?
Of course, it goes without saying that your post was an attempt to marginalize or discredit me, and had no content but your ad hominem tripe. Welcome to Milk and Commies.
Think you'll ever see a hybrid Combine harvesting a field ?
Of course, it goes without saying that your post was an attempt to marginalize or discredit me, and had no content but your ad hominem tripe. Welcome to Milk and Commies.
By: Voidwar
Re: Smart Electric Grid with Electric Cars
Voidwar, with all due respect, sometimes you have a flare for the obvious, a fixation on the minutia, a knack for completely missing someone's point, and big picture myopia. You don't need Loqi's help "discrediting" many of your arguments and observations.
Yes, fossil fuels are required in any delivery system, including the extraction and delivery of fossil fuels. The point of this video is that battery-powered vehicles allow us to not only utilize, but optimize, the wasted capacity of the existing power generation system.
It's wasted capacity that is also used in hybrid vehicles. A car wastes a great deal of kinetic energy every time you step on the brake. The engine recaptures this until-now wasted energy by converting it back into electricity, which charges the battery. A combine does not waste energy in this way, so, no, I do not expect to see a hybrid Combine. Ethanol? Yes. Hydrogen? Yes. (Well, maybe not in my lifetime)
Milk and Commies? Again, you demonstrate your black and white thinking. We have a wide diversity of opinions here, as well as deep, critical thinkers that can see beyond the pithy, Sarah Palinesce, oft-repeated Fox News talking points you seem to have a penchant for. Plus, M&C does more to drive creative thought and ideas in one day than a thousand CPACs could ever hope for. Ideas drive innovation, and innovation is core to a capitalistic, competition-driven society. We have nothing against making a profit, we just happen to give a damn about our planet and the people that live in it (you included, believe it or not).
You just seem to be the most belligerent contrarian here (a.k.a. "troll") when it comes to offering your opinions, a few of which are actually pretty interesting food for thought. Grow a sense of humor, open your mind, and think before you reply, Voidwar. That'll take you far. Here, and in life.
Yes, fossil fuels are required in any delivery system, including the extraction and delivery of fossil fuels. The point of this video is that battery-powered vehicles allow us to not only utilize, but optimize, the wasted capacity of the existing power generation system.
It's wasted capacity that is also used in hybrid vehicles. A car wastes a great deal of kinetic energy every time you step on the brake. The engine recaptures this until-now wasted energy by converting it back into electricity, which charges the battery. A combine does not waste energy in this way, so, no, I do not expect to see a hybrid Combine. Ethanol? Yes. Hydrogen? Yes. (Well, maybe not in my lifetime)
Milk and Commies? Again, you demonstrate your black and white thinking. We have a wide diversity of opinions here, as well as deep, critical thinkers that can see beyond the pithy, Sarah Palinesce, oft-repeated Fox News talking points you seem to have a penchant for. Plus, M&C does more to drive creative thought and ideas in one day than a thousand CPACs could ever hope for. Ideas drive innovation, and innovation is core to a capitalistic, competition-driven society. We have nothing against making a profit, we just happen to give a damn about our planet and the people that live in it (you included, believe it or not).
You just seem to be the most belligerent contrarian here (a.k.a. "troll") when it comes to offering your opinions, a few of which are actually pretty interesting food for thought. Grow a sense of humor, open your mind, and think before you reply, Voidwar. That'll take you far. Here, and in life.
Re: Smart Electric Grid with Electric Cars
Yeah, Milk and Commies.
The site is very left, and I get gangbanged by cheerleaders who think their numbers can make up for not having a valid argument.
Using brake bleed to charge batteries, was not in the OP, and is a separate issue.
Your mention of wasted capacity belies your lack of understanding of my point. You call it wasted, but do you realize it takes more fossil fuel to generate that wattage at non-peak times ? If we use your "wasted capacity" we have to burn more fossil fuels to make it, even if we are making it when demand is low.
Your claims of having a diverse site, ring pretty hollow to this repeatedly gangbanged witness.
The site is very left, and I get gangbanged by cheerleaders who think their numbers can make up for not having a valid argument.
Using brake bleed to charge batteries, was not in the OP, and is a separate issue.
Your mention of wasted capacity belies your lack of understanding of my point. You call it wasted, but do you realize it takes more fossil fuel to generate that wattage at non-peak times ? If we use your "wasted capacity" we have to burn more fossil fuels to make it, even if we are making it when demand is low.
Your claims of having a diverse site, ring pretty hollow to this repeatedly gangbanged witness.
By: Voidwar
Re: Smart Electric Grid with Electric Cars
Yeah, I've just worked for years in the energy industry working with aggregate energy utilization curves of large multifamily real estate investment trusts, and my business partner was "just" responsible for creating 30-year energy demand projections via statistical modeling for a major electric utility to forecast peak utilization to drive a multi-billion dollar capital investment budget, but what the fuck would I know about it? Turbines (fossil fuel or nuclear driven) do not turn off during non-peak times. We just, to date, have not had a place to store all of the excess energy. Got it?
I believe you were the one with the idiotically rhetorical question about hybrid combines.
I'm done replying to you. It's just not worth the time. I'm never going to convince anyone who obviously knows everything (like my 5-year-old nephew).
So keep bending over with your pants down. I've tried to be civil about telling you to pull them up.
I believe you were the one with the idiotically rhetorical question about hybrid combines.
I'm done replying to you. It's just not worth the time. I'm never going to convince anyone who obviously knows everything (like my 5-year-old nephew).
So keep bending over with your pants down. I've tried to be civil about telling you to pull them up.
Re: Smart Electric Grid with Electric Cars
After the fifth or sixth gangbang, it might be time to ask yourself some tough questions.
Try watching the video again. And pay attention this time. Listen for the words "spinning reserve". In the nighttime, power plants are throwing energy in the garbage can as heat, i.e. free energy for dumpster divers on the grid.
Then listen for the words "smart grid". It means my batteries can drink from the grid when it's cheap, and hand it back when it's expensive.
Implied, but not explicitly stated, is that the smart grid also makes everyone into both a consumer and potential producer. If I make extra solar energy (not at night, but in the daytime), the grid can pay me for the extra energy, and charge me less for the nighttime energy when my meter is running forward.
Try watching the video again. And pay attention this time. Listen for the words "spinning reserve". In the nighttime, power plants are throwing energy in the garbage can as heat, i.e. free energy for dumpster divers on the grid.
Then listen for the words "smart grid". It means my batteries can drink from the grid when it's cheap, and hand it back when it's expensive.
Implied, but not explicitly stated, is that the smart grid also makes everyone into both a consumer and potential producer. If I make extra solar energy (not at night, but in the daytime), the grid can pay me for the extra energy, and charge me less for the nighttime energy when my meter is running forward.
Re: Smart Electric Grid with Electric Cars
blabla ad hominem, ad mohino, semper fe, veni, vidi, canis
By: wadadde
Re: Smart Electric Grid with Electric Cars
I don't think that curve he presented really adds up.
Okay, Charging batteries at night will increase demand, I agree. But is this really the function of the y axis?
Because adding batteries to society isn't going to bring down the peak of the curve, as shown, quite the contrary.
It will however increase the -availability- of energy, but if the question and demand happen at opposite times, they will only meet at the borders. In other words, will only affect the "flanks" of the curve shown.
Right?
I'm all for renewable energy but I'd like to keep the facts straight.
Okay, Charging batteries at night will increase demand, I agree. But is this really the function of the y axis?
Because adding batteries to society isn't going to bring down the peak of the curve, as shown, quite the contrary.
It will however increase the -availability- of energy, but if the question and demand happen at opposite times, they will only meet at the borders. In other words, will only affect the "flanks" of the curve shown.
Right?
I'm all for renewable energy but I'd like to keep the facts straight.
By: Vermin
Re: Smart Electric Grid with Electric Cars
The graph shows the amount of energy which needs to be produced by power stations at any given point to meet consumer demands. The peaks (middle of the day) can go down if the batteries become part of the grid. The power in the batteries is not part of the graph, hence the peaks can be avoided by employing these batteries. The assumption is that most of the batteries will be charged during most of the day and charging when it's least expensive to charge (at night). The idea is that the grid will be smart/responsive so it can bridge the gap between produced and required energy whenever it wants to. I don't see what the problem is here..
By: wadadde
Re: Smart Electric Grid with Electric Cars
What I am wondering is what the impact on the climate will be from the batteries. Although a weak source, I was told by a friend about a study he read, where the batteries for Prius' were made out of nickle mind in Canada that destroyed the environment, and were then shipped to china to be processed and finally shipped back to the us to be in our cars. And after the battery was no longer useful it became a waste product that was poisonous and could not be broken down. I think any serious electric based ideas for improving the environment should present points about the wasteful byproducts of the new industry.
By: ysso12
Re: Smart Electric Grid with Electric Cars
Yes, regulation/recycling/sensible design is as important or even more so than innovation.
Batteries will probably never be clean, but it's all about seeing things in perspective. Just because a technology introduces a new kind of pollution or hazard, doesn't necessairily mean that it's worse than the current pollution or hazards. It's all about the scales..
Your comment reminded me about something alarming I'd heard a long, long time ago about fluorescent light bulbs. I just recently saw this, which provided some perspective : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cA2E14uKyZY
Batteries will probably never be clean, but it's all about seeing things in perspective. Just because a technology introduces a new kind of pollution or hazard, doesn't necessairily mean that it's worse than the current pollution or hazards. It's all about the scales..
Your comment reminded me about something alarming I'd heard a long, long time ago about fluorescent light bulbs. I just recently saw this, which provided some perspective : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cA2E14uKyZY
By: wadadde
Re: Smart Electric Grid with Electric Cars
The macro systems are themselves technological innovations.
One thing that's missing from capitalism is any responsibility for "bads". All capitalism can see is "goods" that someone wants to assert ownership over, and not "bads" which are simply abandoned to become everyone's problem.
One way of dealing with this is manufacturer take-back laws. If whoever made the thing is responsible for dealing with it after it's used up, there's a powerful economic incentive to build recycling right into the product. Yesterday's dead batteries become today's new batteries. But since it costs more than $0.00 per unit to make them easy to recycle, they just becomes someone else's river water under the current system.
Plus, hydrogen will replace batteries in the coming decades.
One thing that's missing from capitalism is any responsibility for "bads". All capitalism can see is "goods" that someone wants to assert ownership over, and not "bads" which are simply abandoned to become everyone's problem.
One way of dealing with this is manufacturer take-back laws. If whoever made the thing is responsible for dealing with it after it's used up, there's a powerful economic incentive to build recycling right into the product. Yesterday's dead batteries become today's new batteries. But since it costs more than $0.00 per unit to make them easy to recycle, they just becomes someone else's river water under the current system.
Plus, hydrogen will replace batteries in the coming decades.
Re: Smart Electric Grid with Electric Cars
The "hypercar" idea is at least EIGHT years old! At least that's when I learned about fuel-cell vehicles working as part of the grid during peak hours, from Amory Lovins of Rocky Mountain Institute or his ex-wife, Hunter Lovins. The technology has been around but the will to put it in place sadly may still await a shift in mindset. It's a crime, really.
I agree with Loqi's comment on his post: that capitalism and our economic system currently pay no attention to "externalities" (like pollution, worsened public health, depletion of resources, and eroded ecosystems). Mandatory "take-back" programs on part of companies who mfr all the crap we buy is definitely an essential first step. At very least, it will force them to consider actual feasibility of batteries--or for that matter, other energy provision methods.
Take nuclear, which costs extraordinarily more than other renewables and still has the major deal-breaker of an issue around disposal (as there is NO way to dispose of it safely in terms of geographic timescales). Base-load shmase-bload--let's stop using so much more damn power than we really need! Decentralize the energy grid! Let a few thousand smaller energy producers hook in, instead of letting a handful of filthy fossil fuel cos continue to set their own rules and buy their utility contracts! Solar is the primary answer, especially as we're on the brink of new PV technologies. Then coastal wave generation, and wind, maybe a little geothermal in a few spots. But no more burning shit! Except NG--but that should only be for stove tops and bbqs.
I agree with Loqi's comment on his post: that capitalism and our economic system currently pay no attention to "externalities" (like pollution, worsened public health, depletion of resources, and eroded ecosystems). Mandatory "take-back" programs on part of companies who mfr all the crap we buy is definitely an essential first step. At very least, it will force them to consider actual feasibility of batteries--or for that matter, other energy provision methods.
Take nuclear, which costs extraordinarily more than other renewables and still has the major deal-breaker of an issue around disposal (as there is NO way to dispose of it safely in terms of geographic timescales). Base-load shmase-bload--let's stop using so much more damn power than we really need! Decentralize the energy grid! Let a few thousand smaller energy producers hook in, instead of letting a handful of filthy fossil fuel cos continue to set their own rules and buy their utility contracts! Solar is the primary answer, especially as we're on the brink of new PV technologies. Then coastal wave generation, and wind, maybe a little geothermal in a few spots. But no more burning shit! Except NG--but that should only be for stove tops and bbqs.
By: bryander
