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Almost no Christians have read the Bible, an interesting irony given that it is purported to be the source of their religion.
When you do read the Bible, its like entering a mad house. The books of Moses are a bloodbath from beginning to end. The God of Moses appears to be a volcano, and worships in an orgy of blood and dismembered animals.
Then you get on to Jesus, and things really dont improve much. Jesus states that all the old laws about burning witches etc, given to Moses by God still stand, and Jesus spends most of his time healing the sick, casting out demons and preaching. The irony being that even after he gives his disciples magic powers to cast out demons, many of them still doubt that he is the son of God.
Anyway, this video just cuts out one short segment of the Bible, about witches, wizards and demons. All form part of the narrative of Jesus and God in the Bible. Remove these, and you rip out the credibility of the book on its big claims about Gods, and Sons of Gods and you reduce the Bible to merely a story book.
It is my reckoning that people can identify Harry Potter as a work of fiction. Why then should people struggle so much in identifying the Bible as a work of fiction?
When you do read the Bible, its like entering a mad house. The books of Moses are a bloodbath from beginning to end. The God of Moses appears to be a volcano, and worships in an orgy of blood and dismembered animals.
Then you get on to Jesus, and things really dont improve much. Jesus states that all the old laws about burning witches etc, given to Moses by God still stand, and Jesus spends most of his time healing the sick, casting out demons and preaching. The irony being that even after he gives his disciples magic powers to cast out demons, many of them still doubt that he is the son of God.
Anyway, this video just cuts out one short segment of the Bible, about witches, wizards and demons. All form part of the narrative of Jesus and God in the Bible. Remove these, and you rip out the credibility of the book on its big claims about Gods, and Sons of Gods and you reduce the Bible to merely a story book.
It is my reckoning that people can identify Harry Potter as a work of fiction. Why then should people struggle so much in identifying the Bible as a work of fiction?
Oct 10, 2009 11:26 AM
Re: One Video EVERY Christian Should Watch!
Thunderf00t was dominant over Ray Comfort and he's only emboldened even more since.
By: spam_vigilante
Re: One Video EVERY Christian Should Watch!
I wish he hadn't done that silly, hard to understand, "God" voice.
By: gerrywastaken
Re: One Video EVERY Christian Should Watch!
Btw... I'm a believer in science, but I also believe in witches. They do exist. I know because I dated one a year or two ago. =P Although, I'm not sure she was capable of any of the skills normally attributed to witches in works of fiction. I think it had a lot more to do with her belief system than actual powers. =P
By: gerrywastaken
Re: One Video EVERY Christian Should Watch!
A fundamental error in this video: The Bible is not the source of the Christian religion (at least it shouldn't considered as such). Rather, the source of the Christian religion is a narrative story passed from one person to another. This is the Gospel of Jesus. Not all of those who believed were Jewish, therefore, not all were familiar with the books of Moses, therefore, considered them irrelevant to their faith. In fact, the early Church had no written scriptures about Jesus until decades later. It was simply a story you either believed, or did not believe.
By: sgns
Re: One Video EVERY Christian Should Watch!
Well, which is it? "isn't" or "shouldn't be"? This matters because if you say the latter, that would mean that he didn't make an error at all.
You also make assertions that seem questionable, because they rely more on deduction than on facts. There is no factual knowledge about pre-bible christianity as far as I know, so it's probably not very wise to build arguements around these unknowns. Or we could all pretend that the 'new testament' is a reliable source of information on the matter.
Oh yes, religions are never just about believing stories. That is true by definition!
You also make assertions that seem questionable, because they rely more on deduction than on facts. There is no factual knowledge about pre-bible christianity as far as I know, so it's probably not very wise to build arguements around these unknowns. Or we could all pretend that the 'new testament' is a reliable source of information on the matter.
Oh yes, religions are never just about believing stories. That is true by definition!
By: wadadde
Re: One Video EVERY Christian Should Watch!
"Well, which is it? "isn't" or "shouldn't be"? This matters because if you say the latter, that would mean that he didn't make an error at all."
Apologies. I didn’t make myself very clear. It “shouldn’t be” trumpeted by Christians as the source of their faith, because it “Isn’t”, at least not exclusively.
"You also make assertions that seem questionable, because they rely more on deduction than on facts. There is no factual knowledge about pre-bible christianity as far as I know, so it's probably not very wise to build arguments around these unknowns. "
There is plenty of evidence of “pre-Bible” Christianity. Considering that the Gospels weren’t written until 30 to maybe 70 AD, and the canon didn’t exist until about 300 AD, I think it’s reasonable to believe that The Church was already in existence pivoting on the Gospel narrative.
"Or we could all pretend that the 'new testament' is a reliable source of information on the matter."
A reasonable source in many regards within it’s ancient context, but certainly up to scrutiny.
"Oh yes, religions are never just about believing stories. That is true by definition!"
For some.
Apologies. I didn’t make myself very clear. It “shouldn’t be” trumpeted by Christians as the source of their faith, because it “Isn’t”, at least not exclusively.
"You also make assertions that seem questionable, because they rely more on deduction than on facts. There is no factual knowledge about pre-bible christianity as far as I know, so it's probably not very wise to build arguments around these unknowns. "
There is plenty of evidence of “pre-Bible” Christianity. Considering that the Gospels weren’t written until 30 to maybe 70 AD, and the canon didn’t exist until about 300 AD, I think it’s reasonable to believe that The Church was already in existence pivoting on the Gospel narrative.
"Or we could all pretend that the 'new testament' is a reliable source of information on the matter."
A reasonable source in many regards within it’s ancient context, but certainly up to scrutiny.
"Oh yes, religions are never just about believing stories. That is true by definition!"
For some.
By: sgns
Re: One Video EVERY Christian Should Watch!
It's a possibility that someone who thought that he was the son of god existed and that his name was Jesus Christus. It is even possible that the ghospel of Matthew was written by a person who belonged to an early christian movement.
But it's also possible that christianity didn't start with Christ the person, but instead with Christ the myth, Christ the demi-god character from the story.
That was what I was talking about. I never meant to suggest that christianity didn't exist before 'the canon'. In my 'ignorance' I assumed that all christian scripture belongs to the bible.
So for clarity's sake : there is to my knowledge no evidence whatsoever that there was a christian following during the time that Christ supposidly lived or for that matter immediately after.
The bible only stands up to scritiny if you choose to remain ignorant of past and present scrutiny. Some historical events are mentioned, but that doesn't provide any validity for the claims that have not or cannot otherwise be verified (through cross-referencing for instance) ; it merely proves that the bible was written on earth at certain points in the past. As a whole or only pertaining to the matter at hand it only becomes a reliable source of information when one abandons the critical mindset. Any thought or fantasy can be branded as real that way.
But it's also possible that christianity didn't start with Christ the person, but instead with Christ the myth, Christ the demi-god character from the story.
That was what I was talking about. I never meant to suggest that christianity didn't exist before 'the canon'. In my 'ignorance' I assumed that all christian scripture belongs to the bible.
So for clarity's sake : there is to my knowledge no evidence whatsoever that there was a christian following during the time that Christ supposidly lived or for that matter immediately after.
The bible only stands up to scritiny if you choose to remain ignorant of past and present scrutiny. Some historical events are mentioned, but that doesn't provide any validity for the claims that have not or cannot otherwise be verified (through cross-referencing for instance) ; it merely proves that the bible was written on earth at certain points in the past. As a whole or only pertaining to the matter at hand it only becomes a reliable source of information when one abandons the critical mindset. Any thought or fantasy can be branded as real that way.
By: wadadde
Re: One Video EVERY Christian Should Watch!
I would site some disputed writings of Josephus and Tranquillus. However, I'm curious, what sort of verifiable data would be reasonably expected of scriptural writings, which would be common of all other ancient writings of its time? Do really think every recorded event within scripture made front page news the next day and made an indelible mark upon all of history, motivating every historical writer to make mention of it from therefore on?
Granted, I do not believe the canon is necessarily an accurate collection, yet there are reasons to believe that many of it's books are reasonably accurate as stand-alone works that don't require the others.
And , are you suggesting to me that it's not reasonable to believe that the Christian faith started within some sort of grassroots movement that over 100 years or more started to take root to a noticeable and measurable level within culture? Are you actually confident in believing that the Christian faith was unveiled as an aggressive large-scale campaign that everyone seemed to immediately accept?
And, you're right, there's really nothing in the scriptures that make it incredibly more convincing than any the writing of its time, which may even validate that it's void of an agenda with a polished approach that attempts to make itself seamless and air-tight. It is unpretentious. Is it possible that many of the writers were, in fact, those who they claimed to be, and were simply telling a story that they either experienced, thought they experienced or researched through others? Is that possible, perhaps even reasonable?
You have the luxury of being neo-critical today, while in those in the ancient past, including those with first-hand experience, did not have the same luxury. Therefore, by default, they seem to all be thrown into absolute fallacy to the critically-minded, even when telling the truth. Is it really so reasonable to make such broad strokes about history and those who lived it, because they, very simply, aren't like you: a modern mind who feels they know so much more than those who lived within striking distance of the actual events, people and movements? We only have pieces, at best. Imagine how much information and data were at their disposal that we are absolutely ignorant of today. What about those possibilities?
Possibilities are at the root of humanity's quest for truth, whether philosophically, spiritually or scientifically. Possibilities lends themselves to producing faith when a given individual deems it reasonable enough, even in the presence those infuriated by it.
Granted, I do not believe the canon is necessarily an accurate collection, yet there are reasons to believe that many of it's books are reasonably accurate as stand-alone works that don't require the others.
And , are you suggesting to me that it's not reasonable to believe that the Christian faith started within some sort of grassroots movement that over 100 years or more started to take root to a noticeable and measurable level within culture? Are you actually confident in believing that the Christian faith was unveiled as an aggressive large-scale campaign that everyone seemed to immediately accept?
And, you're right, there's really nothing in the scriptures that make it incredibly more convincing than any the writing of its time, which may even validate that it's void of an agenda with a polished approach that attempts to make itself seamless and air-tight. It is unpretentious. Is it possible that many of the writers were, in fact, those who they claimed to be, and were simply telling a story that they either experienced, thought they experienced or researched through others? Is that possible, perhaps even reasonable?
You have the luxury of being neo-critical today, while in those in the ancient past, including those with first-hand experience, did not have the same luxury. Therefore, by default, they seem to all be thrown into absolute fallacy to the critically-minded, even when telling the truth. Is it really so reasonable to make such broad strokes about history and those who lived it, because they, very simply, aren't like you: a modern mind who feels they know so much more than those who lived within striking distance of the actual events, people and movements? We only have pieces, at best. Imagine how much information and data were at their disposal that we are absolutely ignorant of today. What about those possibilities?
Possibilities are at the root of humanity's quest for truth, whether philosophically, spiritually or scientifically. Possibilities lends themselves to producing faith when a given individual deems it reasonable enough, even in the presence those infuriated by it.
By: sgns
Re: One Video EVERY Christian Should Watch!
Relating to the first half of your reply :
- I am not claiming that christianity was a top-down thing from the very beginning. I really never claimed that... not even implicitly. All I suggested was that Christ could have never existed in the first place. Never mind the claims regarding his supernatural abilities.
- I love facts. The scientific method ensures that a cristal clear distinction is always made between facts (=verified truths) and assumptions or unverified claims. If we want to get a clear picture of the past of which we can all be sure (which btw can never be complete, but we can try), then the only way to do that is to build on these verified truths from the bottom upwards. When we reach a point where no more facts can be dug up and even the basic claim that Christ existed (roaghly as described in the bible) is not scientifically verified, then we are forced to admit that, for the time being, we don't know. 'Reasonable' assumptions are still just assumptions. Verified truths/fact are assumptions with a very high degree of likelyhood. Not just that, but they can also only really be attacked by other facts. That is the power of the scientific method : it is for the most part impervious to the influence of emotional attachments to ideas (given enough time).
The only reason (I think) why atheists usually don't dispute the existence of Christ is because A. they find that fact irrelevant and/or B. they know that they cannot prove that Christ didn't exist (proving a negative for 99 percent is per definition impossible.. for instance : dragons once existed and when they die they burst into flames, destroying the most convincing evidence.. try disproving that claim).
Cross referencing or proving claims with as many different tools as possible is so,SO important, because without it we are left with weak 'facts', unverified claims. How can we build on those? And if we accept these then we are forced to accept ALL unverified claims as fact.There is the weakness, the real and undeniable weakness in unscientific thinking/research.
I will read the next part of your reply later. Tired of typing..
- I am not claiming that christianity was a top-down thing from the very beginning. I really never claimed that... not even implicitly. All I suggested was that Christ could have never existed in the first place. Never mind the claims regarding his supernatural abilities.
- I love facts. The scientific method ensures that a cristal clear distinction is always made between facts (=verified truths) and assumptions or unverified claims. If we want to get a clear picture of the past of which we can all be sure (which btw can never be complete, but we can try), then the only way to do that is to build on these verified truths from the bottom upwards. When we reach a point where no more facts can be dug up and even the basic claim that Christ existed (roaghly as described in the bible) is not scientifically verified, then we are forced to admit that, for the time being, we don't know. 'Reasonable' assumptions are still just assumptions. Verified truths/fact are assumptions with a very high degree of likelyhood. Not just that, but they can also only really be attacked by other facts. That is the power of the scientific method : it is for the most part impervious to the influence of emotional attachments to ideas (given enough time).
The only reason (I think) why atheists usually don't dispute the existence of Christ is because A. they find that fact irrelevant and/or B. they know that they cannot prove that Christ didn't exist (proving a negative for 99 percent is per definition impossible.. for instance : dragons once existed and when they die they burst into flames, destroying the most convincing evidence.. try disproving that claim).
Cross referencing or proving claims with as many different tools as possible is so,SO important, because without it we are left with weak 'facts', unverified claims. How can we build on those? And if we accept these then we are forced to accept ALL unverified claims as fact.There is the weakness, the real and undeniable weakness in unscientific thinking/research.
I will read the next part of your reply later. Tired of typing..
By: wadadde
Re: One Video EVERY Christian Should Watch!
I honestly think that you're making valid points and I'm in agreement with you. This is what anyone born into this world has to face. But if we believe something unverifiable and we're suddenly forced to accept any myth in the unverifiable past, then aren't we forced to also reject everything in the unverifiable past, even if it may be true?
That's what always leaves the case open for people to explore, because in reality, both has their holes One is gullible and the other is presumptuous.
I think the edge of this whole subject is not history, verifiable truth, science or faith, but the weight of the questions being asked about our origins, purpose and destination. I'm sure there are an array of things you accept as true from the unverifiable past, which seem harmless and inconsequential. But when these sorts of questions come up suddenly people become pompous and vulcan about what they accept or don't accept. It's a bit convenient.
That's what always leaves the case open for people to explore, because in reality, both has their holes One is gullible and the other is presumptuous.
I think the edge of this whole subject is not history, verifiable truth, science or faith, but the weight of the questions being asked about our origins, purpose and destination. I'm sure there are an array of things you accept as true from the unverifiable past, which seem harmless and inconsequential. But when these sorts of questions come up suddenly people become pompous and vulcan about what they accept or don't accept. It's a bit convenient.
By: garrettis
Re: One Video EVERY Christian Should Watch!
in relation to the second half of your comment :
I don't judge the people of the past. They have the luxury of having first hand experiences that I will never have. So you are right if you are suggesting that they could be closer to the truth on these matters then I am. But suppose Jesus existed and was doing some good old fashioned faith-healing. Would they know wether what he was doing was actually healing? To this day there are showmen who proclaim themselves to perform healing miracles with the power of god/Jesus. Ignorant, desperate, insuficiantly critical people fall prey to these charlatans by the millions. They travel not just around the USA but also to Africa where they collect money from huge crowds (hoping for what can never be). These poor people lose precious money that way which could be better spent on at least some kind of medical treatment. A highly critical mindset would surely benifit these poor souls. Instead they are trapped in a mindset which can never serve them in these matters.
Religions could be a good thing! I believe that with all my heart, but only if the supernatural element were taken out of the equation. Belief is free, but reality is single-minded and unbreakable, not even by the brightest hopes.
I don't judge the people of the past. They have the luxury of having first hand experiences that I will never have. So you are right if you are suggesting that they could be closer to the truth on these matters then I am. But suppose Jesus existed and was doing some good old fashioned faith-healing. Would they know wether what he was doing was actually healing? To this day there are showmen who proclaim themselves to perform healing miracles with the power of god/Jesus. Ignorant, desperate, insuficiantly critical people fall prey to these charlatans by the millions. They travel not just around the USA but also to Africa where they collect money from huge crowds (hoping for what can never be). These poor people lose precious money that way which could be better spent on at least some kind of medical treatment. A highly critical mindset would surely benifit these poor souls. Instead they are trapped in a mindset which can never serve them in these matters.
Religions could be a good thing! I believe that with all my heart, but only if the supernatural element were taken out of the equation. Belief is free, but reality is single-minded and unbreakable, not even by the brightest hopes.
By: wadadde
Re: One Video EVERY Christian Should Watch!
I couldn't agree with you more. I've viewed videos on YOUTUBE behind the scenes at faith-healing gatherings in Aftrica, watching people pressured to be healed, and in the end . . . really not healed at all. It brought tears to my eyes, because these people genuinely wanted God to heal them, but nothing happened while all the while some white guy is lining his pockets with their dreams. Disgusting.
These are poisonous people with lies dripping from their lips, praying on those who have hope. But far be it for those people to nullify some actual events that may have truly happened, regardless of their pathetic plagiarism.
I've never considered these events common. Even when you look at the Gospels, Jesus gets a bit pissed at people who get focused on his healings, turns to 5,000 followers and barks a few mind-blowing statements to them. 4,898 followers turn away from him. Only 12 remained. When he apparently raised Lazarus from the dead, he did so knowing that Lazarus would simply die again. His healings and miracles were not the point, but part of a larger message.
These are poisonous people with lies dripping from their lips, praying on those who have hope. But far be it for those people to nullify some actual events that may have truly happened, regardless of their pathetic plagiarism.
I've never considered these events common. Even when you look at the Gospels, Jesus gets a bit pissed at people who get focused on his healings, turns to 5,000 followers and barks a few mind-blowing statements to them. 4,898 followers turn away from him. Only 12 remained. When he apparently raised Lazarus from the dead, he did so knowing that Lazarus would simply die again. His healings and miracles were not the point, but part of a larger message.
By: garrettis
Re: One Video EVERY Christian Should Watch!
Some of what you state contains an element of truth. For example, the New Testament was not writeen immediately following the death of Jesus.
But if only an oral tradition, would not much of the story get muddled over time? For example, we keep hearing from the religious right how The Bible (assumably God) tells us that homosexuality is a sin. But there are far more passages that instruct us to not eat yeast than there are that refer to being gay.
Perhaps you had better put that donut down before a lightning bolt comes out of the sky.
But if only an oral tradition, would not much of the story get muddled over time? For example, we keep hearing from the religious right how The Bible (assumably God) tells us that homosexuality is a sin. But there are far more passages that instruct us to not eat yeast than there are that refer to being gay.
Perhaps you had better put that donut down before a lightning bolt comes out of the sky.
By: spam_vigilante
Re: One Video EVERY Christian Should Watch!
That's a good point. I think we need to question any event that significantly pre-dates it's written records. I'm sure a lot of things we accept in history fall under the same scrutiny, such the words of Socrates, the plays of Shakespeare or the history of Alexander the Great. It's simply something you have accept about history, but it would be unreasonable to reject everything based on those limitations.
I think it's the responsibility of modern man to sift through history and deduct what he finds to be true and reasonable for himself.
As far as the law for law issues you bring up, there is a certain lens through which you're perceiving scripture that may be missing the point, which leads to a pretty interesting conversation. Feel free to contact me directly if you'd like to discuss that further.
I think it's the responsibility of modern man to sift through history and deduct what he finds to be true and reasonable for himself.
As far as the law for law issues you bring up, there is a certain lens through which you're perceiving scripture that may be missing the point, which leads to a pretty interesting conversation. Feel free to contact me directly if you'd like to discuss that further.
By: sgns
Re: One Video EVERY Christian Should Watch!
Words have 2 means and with The Holy bible this is true. Its called the Language of Branchs/green man. Until you understand this, you should not be commenting on things you don't fully understand. "The Books of Moses are a bloodbath" please tell me.
What or Who is Moses?
What is blood?
I expect spam_viglante to skip around these questions because he doesnt know. It clear to me form video they dont have a clue.
What or Who is Moses?
What is blood?
I expect spam_viglante to skip around these questions because he doesnt know. It clear to me form video they dont have a clue.
By: Madmonk
Re: One Video EVERY Christian Should Watch!
isn't it obvious that he means the 'old testament'?
By: wadadde
Re: Kill Witches and Stone Wizards
Not all Christians are fundamentalists who take their mythology literally. The most vocal of every group are usually the assholes. So you'll usually hear from the asshole Christians (Glenn Beck, Ray Comfort, Kirk Cameron and so forth), who take the Bible literally.
There are many who don't. Many thinking Christians don't. The dude who discovered the "missing" chromosome from other apes, Ken Miller, is a Roman Catholic. My mother is an Episcopalian. I was asking her about their eschatology the other day, and she was telling me they generally think the book of Revelation to St. John isn't prophecy, it's a documentation of the current state of Rome when it was written. No horsemen coming, no Jerusalem falling, no wormwood falling from the sky (Chernobyl when the third angel blows her trumpet--I'm really into eschatology right now). They don't really do that stuff. They read it as literature, as a politically and mythologically motivated text written by people with different agendas. I mean, the world starts twice, people! Right there at the beginning of Genesis.
There are many, many different kinds of Christians out there. It's folly to lump them all in with the most vocal douchebags you've met or heard online. It isn't moving society forward to go on a witch hunt of them without understanding the difference between fundamentalists who take the Bible as literal truth and people who take it with heaps of salt.
There are many who don't. Many thinking Christians don't. The dude who discovered the "missing" chromosome from other apes, Ken Miller, is a Roman Catholic. My mother is an Episcopalian. I was asking her about their eschatology the other day, and she was telling me they generally think the book of Revelation to St. John isn't prophecy, it's a documentation of the current state of Rome when it was written. No horsemen coming, no Jerusalem falling, no wormwood falling from the sky (Chernobyl when the third angel blows her trumpet--I'm really into eschatology right now). They don't really do that stuff. They read it as literature, as a politically and mythologically motivated text written by people with different agendas. I mean, the world starts twice, people! Right there at the beginning of Genesis.
There are many, many different kinds of Christians out there. It's folly to lump them all in with the most vocal douchebags you've met or heard online. It isn't moving society forward to go on a witch hunt of them without understanding the difference between fundamentalists who take the Bible as literal truth and people who take it with heaps of salt.
Re: Kill Witches and Stone Wizards
True, true, but aren't there things at the heart of christianity that are worth getting rid of?
Notice that I'm not talking about christians (the individuals), but rather things like the blackmail that is heaven/hell. If christians don't renounce that concept then they're left with two options. Option 1 : accept that the atheists around them (who they love) are doomed to eternal torture in the afterlife and do nothing to help them. Option 2 : make the infidels/pagans 'believe' at all cost. There is no middle ground if you are a true believer. That true belief doesn't mean that you'll be a total douchebag, but it does imply that you'll contribute to a system which limits freedom of thought.
If you don't feel like you belong to what I consider to be 'true believers' then you are either not rational, somewhat of a hypocrit or you have partially or fully renounced the inherent heaven and hell threat.
Don't get me wrong, I am fully aware that only a small minority of the world population are 'true believers'. The rest are just wishy-whashy, half-assed, half-brained donuts, just like us atheists. A 'fact' that rarely gets mentioned on the pages of this atheist pit of moral depravity.
Notice that I'm not talking about christians (the individuals), but rather things like the blackmail that is heaven/hell. If christians don't renounce that concept then they're left with two options. Option 1 : accept that the atheists around them (who they love) are doomed to eternal torture in the afterlife and do nothing to help them. Option 2 : make the infidels/pagans 'believe' at all cost. There is no middle ground if you are a true believer. That true belief doesn't mean that you'll be a total douchebag, but it does imply that you'll contribute to a system which limits freedom of thought.
If you don't feel like you belong to what I consider to be 'true believers' then you are either not rational, somewhat of a hypocrit or you have partially or fully renounced the inherent heaven and hell threat.
Don't get me wrong, I am fully aware that only a small minority of the world population are 'true believers'. The rest are just wishy-whashy, half-assed, half-brained donuts, just like us atheists. A 'fact' that rarely gets mentioned on the pages of this atheist pit of moral depravity.
By: wadadde
Re: Kill Witches and Stone Wizards
Third Option:
Believe there is such a thing as justice. Give people the responsibility to believe what they wish, and let them meet whatever consequence it may lead to. Giving someone their dignity is an expression of love, even if it leads to their own destruction.
Believe there is such a thing as justice. Give people the responsibility to believe what they wish, and let them meet whatever consequence it may lead to. Giving someone their dignity is an expression of love, even if it leads to their own destruction.
By: garrettis
Re: Kill Witches and Stone Wizards
The two flaws in your thinking are that 1. the soul is eternal. Everyone will die someday, but we're not talking about premature death here. How does 80 years of 'love' and dignity stack up against an eternity of torment? It doesn't. Fuck dignity!
2. religions are nothing like laws! more like russian roulette : pick the wrong religion -> eternal damnation. Considering how many religions there have been since the beginning of 'religionised man' one probably has more chance to win the lottery than to win the game of the afterlife.
I'm sorry to say that your comment was beyond rediculous. I feel like insulting you :)
really, where does this shit come from??
2. religions are nothing like laws! more like russian roulette : pick the wrong religion -> eternal damnation. Considering how many religions there have been since the beginning of 'religionised man' one probably has more chance to win the lottery than to win the game of the afterlife.
I'm sorry to say that your comment was beyond rediculous. I feel like insulting you :)
really, where does this shit come from??
By: wadadde
Re: Kill Witches and Stone Wizards
It's not about "picking" the right one. It's about finding the solution to questions and problems of the utmost importance, potty mouth. Justice is one of those.
Although you speak as if you transcend the follies of religion, your skewed perception and lack of understanding is clearly indicative of it, potty mouth.
So, I tell you what, why don't I give you the dignity of living out your "Fuck Dignity" belief system and allow things to unfold as they will for you in this life and the life to come. Cheers.
Although you speak as if you transcend the follies of religion, your skewed perception and lack of understanding is clearly indicative of it, potty mouth.
So, I tell you what, why don't I give you the dignity of living out your "Fuck Dignity" belief system and allow things to unfold as they will for you in this life and the life to come. Cheers.
By: sgns
Re: Kill Witches and Stone Wizards
Whoa there, Bucky! There's a shitload of middle ground. Most religions aren't either/or. Are you familiar with religious studies? You don't sound like you're read up; you sound like you're only familiar with some of the most damning. Some Christians don't really buy Hell at all! No purgatory, neither! No devil, just God, kicking it. Why do they do all this shit? Because it's the right thing to do. Justice, mercy, peace, love. Proselytizing isn't a value in a lot of religions, either, and they don't care if people convert. Yes, some do (Mormons, for example), but not all care.
If you want some open-minded Christianity (which I don't think you want), try Lutherans, Episcopalians, Anglicans, Presbyterians, or the really way-out (and some don't consider them "Christians" because of their beliefs around the trinity) Unitarians. But before you go talking about what they believe, you might want to educate yourself, because right now, you're not talking about religion. You're projection your fears about religion, and you're talking about certain religious nutjobs. There are "true believers" whose beliefs involve minding their own fucking business.
If you're going to be the atheist equivalent of a Baptist standing in the subway yelling from the Gospel, you should probably at least read one book about comparative religion. Find out what makes one a member to a religion (from the Latin "religio," "to tie together, to bind together") before you go spouting what you think it is (heaven and hell? Some think this world is hell, and the next is heaven). Sometimes it's just saying a Creed that makes you a part of, or getting your head dunked as a baby.
And no, I'm not a Christian. Jesus Christ is not my Lord and Savior, thanks. I'm not religious, either. No religion for me, I'm good.
If you want some open-minded Christianity (which I don't think you want), try Lutherans, Episcopalians, Anglicans, Presbyterians, or the really way-out (and some don't consider them "Christians" because of their beliefs around the trinity) Unitarians. But before you go talking about what they believe, you might want to educate yourself, because right now, you're not talking about religion. You're projection your fears about religion, and you're talking about certain religious nutjobs. There are "true believers" whose beliefs involve minding their own fucking business.
If you're going to be the atheist equivalent of a Baptist standing in the subway yelling from the Gospel, you should probably at least read one book about comparative religion. Find out what makes one a member to a religion (from the Latin "religio," "to tie together, to bind together") before you go spouting what you think it is (heaven and hell? Some think this world is hell, and the next is heaven). Sometimes it's just saying a Creed that makes you a part of, or getting your head dunked as a baby.
And no, I'm not a Christian. Jesus Christ is not my Lord and Savior, thanks. I'm not religious, either. No religion for me, I'm good.
Re: Kill Witches and Stone Wizards
ugh, bucky? that so infuriating!
i hate you already :)
I wasn't passing judgement on ALL religion. Before making all kinds of assumptions about what I wasn't even talking about, you might want to at least read my comment with basic care.
I don't WANT anything exept highlight what is central to christian belief. If I am wrong about what that is, then that is another matter entirely.
Those few "nutjobs" you refer to are not necessairily nutjobs (they merely follow their Beliefs) and range in the millions, if not billions. I am not afraid of religion, but would like the world to move past where we are now. You could say that I am an idealist in the sense that I recognise that the world is always changing and that we can guide that change if we choose to. Before doing that it would be nice to come to some agreement about what matters most. Gods and the sometimes wild interpretations of their devine will seem to be squarely in the path of that progress.
I was raised with religious values. Does that make me religious? No. So when CAN we safely assume that someone has Faith? Think about that one, skippy, while I don't even bother to read more than half of your reply, because you started of by pissing me off instead of waiting untill you proved that i am an ignorant idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about before claiming it.
Goodday, sir.
Goodday
i hate you already :)
I wasn't passing judgement on ALL religion. Before making all kinds of assumptions about what I wasn't even talking about, you might want to at least read my comment with basic care.
I don't WANT anything exept highlight what is central to christian belief. If I am wrong about what that is, then that is another matter entirely.
Those few "nutjobs" you refer to are not necessairily nutjobs (they merely follow their Beliefs) and range in the millions, if not billions. I am not afraid of religion, but would like the world to move past where we are now. You could say that I am an idealist in the sense that I recognise that the world is always changing and that we can guide that change if we choose to. Before doing that it would be nice to come to some agreement about what matters most. Gods and the sometimes wild interpretations of their devine will seem to be squarely in the path of that progress.
I was raised with religious values. Does that make me religious? No. So when CAN we safely assume that someone has Faith? Think about that one, skippy, while I don't even bother to read more than half of your reply, because you started of by pissing me off instead of waiting untill you proved that i am an ignorant idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about before claiming it.
Goodday, sir.
Goodday
By: wadadde
Re: Kill Witches and Stone Wizards
Sorry I hurt your feelings; I didn't intend to.
Re: Kill Witches and Stone Wizards
True, true, but aren't there things at the heart of christianity that are worth getting rid of?
Notice that I'm not talking about christians (the individuals), but rather things like the blackmail that is heaven/hell. If christians don't renounce that concept then they're left with two options. Option 1 : accept that the atheists around them (who they love) are doomed to eternal torture in the afterlife and do nothing to help them. Option 2 : make the infidels/pagans 'believe' at all cost. There is no middle ground if you are a true believer. That true belief doesn't mean that you'll be a total douchebag, but it does imply that you'll contribute to a system which limits freedom of thought.
If you don't feel like you belong to what I consider to be 'true believers' then you are either not rational, somewhat of a hypocrit or you have partially or fully renounced the inherent heaven and hell threat.
Don't get me wrong, I am fully aware that only a small minority of the world population are 'true believers'. The rest are just wishy-whashy, half-assed, half-brained donuts, just like us atheists. A 'fact' that rarely gets mentioned on the pages of this atheist pit of moral depravity.
Notice that I'm not talking about christians (the individuals), but rather things like the blackmail that is heaven/hell. If christians don't renounce that concept then they're left with two options. Option 1 : accept that the atheists around them (who they love) are doomed to eternal torture in the afterlife and do nothing to help them. Option 2 : make the infidels/pagans 'believe' at all cost. There is no middle ground if you are a true believer. That true belief doesn't mean that you'll be a total douchebag, but it does imply that you'll contribute to a system which limits freedom of thought.
If you don't feel like you belong to what I consider to be 'true believers' then you are either not rational, somewhat of a hypocrit or you have partially or fully renounced the inherent heaven and hell threat.
Don't get me wrong, I am fully aware that only a small minority of the world population are 'true believers'. The rest are just wishy-whashy, half-assed, half-brained donuts, just like us atheists. A 'fact' that rarely gets mentioned on the pages of this atheist pit of moral depravity.
By: wadadde
Re: Kill Witches and Stone Wizards
damn! it posted twice again.. how does this get deleted??
By: wadadde
Re: Kill Witches and Stone Wizards
Just like that. Actually, I think you can also remove your own comments yourself. After all, you own them.
Re: Kill Witches and Stone Wizards
Although I am quite non-militant in my stance against God, I continue to post these clips because they tend to support a personal choice. After all, I very much love my country and its foundation in allowing religious freedom. Those who choose to practice their faith have my... um, err... blessing.
All that said, thanks for everyone's charged discussion. I also love to read the threads of civil discussion as much as I do the anger-driven ones.
All that said, thanks for everyone's charged discussion. I also love to read the threads of civil discussion as much as I do the anger-driven ones.
By: spam_vigilante
