The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in 3D

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The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in 3D
Was recently discovered an animation that was rendered using the measured redshift of all 10,000 galaxies in the Hubble Ultra Deep Field image.

A quick history of both deep field images and this video ends with a fly-through of the Ultra Deep Field.

Every galaxy in the image is in its proper distance as viewed from the telescope line of sight.

As if this image wasn't amazing enough.
Aug 12, 2009 10:45 AM
Re: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in 3D
I understand that to appreciate the area of the sky that Deep Field comprises, you should hold a grain of sand at arms length. The actual area of sky obscured by the grain is the entire 'deep field' area photographed.
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Re: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in 3D
"in some cases, faster than the speed of light" .

nothing can move faster than the speed of light.
By: halibut
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Re: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in 3D
"moving away from us, in some cases faster than the speed of light"

which I can only take to mean that perhaps the two points are moving away from each other at a speed which when added together is faster than the speed of light. who knows exactly what he means though.
By: dormandu
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Re: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in 3D
It is true that nothing can move THROUGH SPACE faster than light. The key here is that the galaxies are not moving through space, it is just that space is getting bigger between them. Imagine two dots on a rubber sheet. If you stretch the sheet, the dots will move apart from each other but they won't have moved relative to the sheet. (dots:galaxies as sheet:space) Does this help any?
By: kernohan
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Re: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in 3D
Yes, I believe this is it. Note that we will never be able to see the things that are far enough away to be "moving" at that speed.
By: ice-9
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Re: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in 3D
I don't think relativity says two objects can't move away from each other with a cumulative speed greater than the speed of light. I think it just says that an object can't travel over the speed limit. For example, if we drive past each other on the highway at 50 mph each, then this doesn't mean that we're both travelling at 100 mph and breaking the speed limit all of the sudden. But then again how do you really calculate speed in space when nothing in the universe can be considered stationary?
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Re: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in 3D
Actually, yes, the theory of relativity does say this. All motion is relative, and nothing and be moving through space faster than the speed of light relative to anything. While you're example works for cars, it does not hold for things moving 1/2 the speed of light or more (when the equations get a lot more complex.)
By: kernohan
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Re: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in 3D
And i should add: yes, this means that speed is not additive. But "rapidity" is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapidity

As you can see, the rapidity of light is infinite. This means that:

Rapidity of light + Rapidity of Light = Rapidity of Light
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Re: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in 3D
If it's relative, then I would think every atom in your body is moving at billions of different speeds all at once since there are countless points of reference in the universe. Interesting.
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Re: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in 3D
Well...no. The atoms in your body are all moving the same velocity (we're not going to get into quantum mechanics here). But describing motion is useless unless you make it relative to some other point. All your atoms are going to moving with the same velocity (roughly) in relation to any other given point.
By: Geist
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Re: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in 3D
Not trying to be doochey but I'm bored and this is something I really would like to understand. So you're saying there can only be one possible speed for an object and that depends on whether a human is observing it and calculating the speed from some reference point he/she has designated?
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Re: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in 3D
Let's try this a different way. Suppose you are traveling down the highway in your car at 60 MPH when you pass by your friend standing on the side of the road. You stick your hand out the window and wave. Your friend observes you passing by him at 60 MPH while he claims to be stationary. You, however, sitting motionless (relative to the car that is carrying you) observe your friend (and the rest of the world) passing behind you at 60 MPH. Which observation is correct? Well, they both are. It is equally valid for your friend to say you and your car are moving at 60 MPH down the road as it is for you to say that you are stationary and the rest of the world is traveling at 60 MPH behind you. It just depends on what point you use for reference.

Now you may be thinking, that's a pretty mundane explanation, I see that everyday on my way to the store. What does it have to do with Relativity? Relativity doesn't really take effect until you reach much higher speeds (which is to say, the effects are still present at the lower speeds we see everyday, but they are so subtle that they are hardly worth mentioning).

Suppose now that it is getting late and you want to get home. You push down the gas pedal and speed your car up to 75% the speed of light (you bought the sports model). It's getting dark so you also flip on your headlights. One of the things Einstein figured out with the Theory of Relativity is that while all motion in the universe is relative, the speed of light is absolute. It doesn't matter where you are observing from, it will always be the same (approx. 186,000 miles/second). As you flip on your headlights, your friend still watching you go by will observe the beam of light shoot forward out the front of your car at the speed of light, or about 25% faster than you are going. You, however, will see the same beam of light shoot forward at 100% the speed of light. Or, in other words, your friend would measure the speed difference between you and the beam of light to be 46,500 miles/s, while you would measure it to be 186,000 miles/s. Which observation is correct? Once again, both of you are.

Sorry if this is getting a little heavy. I'm not even sure I answered your question, but I kind of got off on a tangent there. I'll try and finish up here (hopefully this is till interesting to you). How can both observations be right when they are so different? Your intuition probably told you that if you are traveling at 75% the speed of light, you should have seen the beam of light leave your car at 25% the speed of light. Turns out the universe is a much stranger place than what our intuition often tells us (probably because we so rarely have to deal with relativistic speeds in everyday life, our brains just aren't wired for it). As you approach the speed of light, relative to your friend still standing on the side of the road, time slows down for you. A minute will take much longer to pass inside your car than it will in the outside world (or, to put it another way, if you look out the window you will see time passing in outside world much faster than it is inside the car).

If you got on a spaceship to Alpha Centauri (4 light years away, or 8 light years round trip) that could go the speed of light, you would find the trip there and back to take hardly any time at all. But once you got back to Earth, you would find that 8 years had gone by. Relative to the Earth, it took you 8 years to get there and back, but, because time moves slower onboard the spaceship (in fact, at the speed of light it stops altogether), it didn't seem like it took much time at all.

That was a very roundabout explanation. Hope I didn't lose you in there. To get back to your original question, the motion of an object only has meaning when described in relation to some other reference point. Just like in the first example: are you traveling at 60 MPH or are you stationary? It depends on if your motion is being measured in reference to some point on the side of the road, or the back seat of your car. Your velocity is still the same either way. Does that make sense?
By: Geist
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Re: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in 3D
Holy crap! I wrote a book there. Sorry about that. :P
By: Geist
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Re: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in 3D
NP. This is good stuff. I think I see what your saying. If you approach the speed of light in your car, then the light coming from your headlights is still travelling away from your car and your eyes at 186,000 miles/second. This is because time slows down (from only your perspective) as you speed up. I would think that a "stationary" observer would calculate that you are catching up with the light.

So no matter how much you keep speeding up, time will just slow down more and more and will work against you to keep you 186,000 miles/second slower than the light coming from your headlight (or light coming from a "stationary" source). I guess light is either not affected by time or operates in some dimension where time isn't a factor.

Thanks for the explanation.
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Re: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in 3D
I found the fly-through a bit anti-climatic. I find zooming into space images with Google Sky does the trick just fine.
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Re: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in 3D
...and all this....from a big bang....theory. Not buying it.
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Re: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in 3D
why is it so hard to believe?
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Re: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in 3D
cause the bible don't say nothing bout no big bangin'.
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Re: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in 3D
I prefer to think of God as a being that spans multiple dimensions and has the power and energy to push energy/matter into existance at his will.

It would describe what and how we are here, as well as the ability to perform the miracles spoken of in the bible. Too many take the bible as a hard fact, and not a set of stories and ideas passed down from generation to generation. Pehaps God did help facilitate the writing of it, however if we judge the writings against the time, it spoke of the earth as resting on nothign long before the first telescope was event thought of, and of other things that were contrary to popular or "known" fact of the time.

As another thought, the romans drank out of leaden pipes and vessels, and yet we still hold their writings as sacred in philosophy, try that today and you will end up in a straight jacket and a padded cell.

I believe we were created, but we have free will and the ability to do what the F we please, oooh look asteroids game.......
By: Steevo
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Re: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in 3D
Yes, why don't we take the gaps between what science DOES know, and fill it with whatever ridiculous horse shit we can make up to explain the rest. If you want to consult and reference ancient documents written by our HIGHLY superstious ancestors who knew EVEN LESS than we do, all the better. Why not just ask crazy Aunt Edna where SHE thinks shit came from and write that down somewhere?
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Re: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in 3D
I like it, aunt edna always make good cookies, better than those goddamn elves, and without the nightitme rape visits.......

But in all reality, your sarchasam is well founded upon the ideas that have been spoon fed to you no doubt by stuperiors with a education based in the 70's.

Get a clue yourself and try and explain it instead of just poking fun at others in your fat rage.

We could dabble with the idea that God hasn't been DISPROVEN, just ignored. Much like the proverbial pink elepahnt inthe room possibly....
By: Steevo
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Re: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in 3D
You can't prove a negative.
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Re: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in 3D
I may be incorrect, but I think what he is trying to say is that he is comfortable accepting scientific truths with the caveat that he believes god designed those truths.

As an atheist myself, I am comfortable with a theist having those beliefs, so long as he is not refuting facts that have been proven. I don't think anything he said suggested otherwise.
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Re: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in 3D
Holla.

I honestly believe everything I have learned and understood in science, and have found no direct conflit with what the Bible teaches, so long as you remember what it is, just a handbook to tell us to stop being a fucking jerk, and other important things like not to fuck your sister, don't eat shit, take a shower, wear a rubber or don't get int he pool.....etc Like high school but with more death, and somewhat less drinking.

Water to wine, if only I could.

For example try and explain how the earth was formed to a man who has never seen more than a few miles from his birth place, and wears a hula skirt. So you have to have a start to the story...

"In the beginning"

Holy shit, would you look at that, a bible quote on M&C. I could go on, but the ones here who hate the idea of God, have never read the bible and prefer to not read it, so would do nothing more other than the whole "you are wong" thing does already, and those that do are probably jesus freaks who would insist their view is the only correct one, and everyone else is going to hell.
By: Steevo
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Re: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in 3D
In my opinion, there does appear to be evidence that stars and galaxies are moving away from some center point. However, the big bang theory raises more questions for me than it solves. It it's true, then are there other universes out there and were there other big bangs? Where did all of this energy/matter from the big bang come from? What existed before the big bang? Science doesn't have answers for this and I don't see how we could ever possibly know.
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Re: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in 3D
OK, there is no "center point" of the universe, everything is moving away from everything else. We cannot say anything about other universes, we can only discuss what is in our universe. We don't know where the energy came from (or what "banged") but then again, where did god come from? Nothing existed before the big bang, it created space and time. science might not have the answers, yet, but its better than just making stuff up, right?
By: kernohan
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Re: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in 3D
I agree.
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Re: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in 3D
Well I agree that science is good. But as for the whole center point thing, stars/galaxies/whatever are moving away from each other according to the red shift thing. This could only mean that everything was closer to each other in the past. When things get closer and closer the further you go back in time, then you end up with a center point.
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Re: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in 3D
Time was created during the Big Bang, so there really can't be a "before" the Big Bang. All you can do is try and look back closer and closer to the event itself. As it stands, current physical theory lets us look back to about 10^-43 seconds after the event, but going back farther our current equations start to break down into nonsense. Physicists are still working on it though!
By: Geist
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Re: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in 3D
But how can something be created from nothing?
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Re: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in 3D
It wasn't.
By: Geist
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Re: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in 3D
But you just said there can't be a "before" the big bang. As if nothing existed before it.
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Re: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in 3D
I did not nothing existed before the Big Bang. I said there is no such thing as before the Big Bang. In order to have a "before", you need time.
By: Geist
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Re: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in 3D
You'd rather believe in your imaginary friend?
By: kernohan
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Re: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in 3D
the worst part is that some idiot who thinks that an image of jesus on toast is more important than the udf. shees
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Re: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in 3D
what it means is that there is no god. that we are not alone in the universe, but that our neighbors are too far away for us ever to meet. that there are nearly as many worlds out there as we can imagine. and it means that we are so small and insignificant as to be meaningless in our entirety. however, we can contemplate it, and that is amazing.
By: karlkw
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Re: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in 3D
That...that means...Star Wars is REAL! Sweet!
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