Pat Condell: Apologists for Evil

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Pat Condell: Apologists for Evil
The cultural treachery of the liberal left.

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Jul 23, 2009 12:07 PM
Re: Pat Condell: Apologists for Evil
And there the ball goes ... out the stadium.
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Re: Pat Condell: Apologists for Evil
I'm against all major religions. DOes that mean I'm not liberal?

Personally I don't believe in "left" and "right" the terms are so convoluted they don't mean anything anymore. I wonder if they ever did?
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Re: Pat Condell: Apologists for Evil
An excellent observation. They never did.
By: ice-9
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Re: Pat Condell: Apologists for Evil
The 'problem' with the right and left issue is that everyone seems to have a unique opinion as to what either means.

Personally, I think that right means small government, and left means big government (intrusive). Small government considers itself with core issues (that benefit everyone) and it does very little, if anything, else.

The modern progressives tend to force their morals on others, even if it damages their rights. It's for the greater good, they say.

Nowadays, the same goes for the so-called conservatives, who aren't conservatives at all.

They're all collectivists, with a few notable exceptions; and those individual exceptions are classical liberals or libertarians, maybe even anarchists (but I haven't studied that, but do know that anarchy doesn't last long).

So by this line of reasoning, GWB was a neocon (the so-called conservative, and a fascist, of course), while Obama is a modern progressive, or (a more descriptive term for him) liberal fascist. For the record, it's Obama who's far more dangerous.

Hitler and Stalin were progressive liberals and strongly in favor of big government, and so were Woodrow Wilson and FDR, who's America's fascist darling.

Enough about the loons. Now for something good: Ron Paul. He's a libertarian, which means that if your average American hadn't been brainwashed, they would all have voted for him. But, alas. As long as people think that Nazis (and the modern type) were far-right, not much will change. What will happen, though, is that people will willingly (but unconsciously) repeat history. The bad parts, that is.

Hint: many Germans didn't think they were making a bad choice. The same goes for Americans. If you can't see, everything will be a big mystery for you and you will only think you understand life by incorrectly interpreting the past.

Naturally, feel free to ignore what I wrote. I'm writing this not far from Germany, after all, and must be propagandizing my über-right political ideology. What else?
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Re: Pat Condell: Apologists for Evil
An issue which I don't feel is fairly represented here is liberal progressivism as a natural reaction to all types of religious conservatism in the West. Islam is not the only enemy of freedom and equality. Thanks to a recent post by Spam, we know that 48% of Europe is atheist, as compared to 16.1% in the US. If the conservative right in this country operated without opposition, abortion would not be legal and gays would be jailed or shipped off to "correction camps." I view Islam as a far greater immediate threat to our freedom and safety, but Christianity has been making things terrible for women and any but the most pious for far longer. Christianity in the West is no less androcentric than Islam, and Islam as an 'invader' doesn't make it worse ethically than an entrenched religion. The basic idea of this video is to admonish Islamic sympathizers, which is a worthy endeavor. To demonize champions of tolerance and equality simply because they've drifted to one side or the other in a society which is so polarized is equally worthy of admonishment. It is still not easy, in the US to be a woman or to be gay or to be a minority, and while I am none of these things, I am sensitive enough to the nuances of this culture to feel overwhelmed. Is the murder of an abortion doctor less tyrannical than the burqa? Perhaps it represents tyranny on a technically smaller scale, but it tyranny of the same degree. The fact is most of the progressive liberals that I know are violently opposed to religious oppression of any variety and Islam is considered a great offender. I move in pretty "progressive" circles, and I have never, NEVER, heard a defense of Islam either as a culture or a religion as a subject for debate among my peers. That is what defines progressives in my opinion, the sometimes flawed, rarely expeditive, but persistent defense of individual freedoms as defined by curtailing forces. I don't often disagree with you W_W but t he assertion that progressives as a group impose their morals is just not correct. That for me is the opposite of how I would define a progressive person, that definition being a person who staunchly defends the personal rights and freedoms of an individual to live their life as they wish up to but not beyond the point where that lifestyle impedes the personal rights and freedoms of another. You are right in that most people believe that what they are doing is morally right and justified. Often, it requires serious meditation to determine the true heading of one's moral compass, and ignoring the forces and influences that would bend you and use you. To live a person needs conviction, and that conviction should always be based on subjective experience. Only by comparing your subjective experience to the objective good of others can you validate your actions with true moral imperatives. Otherwise you simply work for what you want, and can not claim to be altruist. Injustice reigns still in most of the world, not just places where Islam is 'invading,' and people are fighting it in those places. The world stood by for the Rwandan genocide, and many people had no idea until somebody made a for-profit movie about it. To condemn an entire movement for not being perfect is unjust. I'll take the progressive movement, however imperfect, before I will the conservative, because in the US conservative means Christianity. I see Christianity and Islam as interchangeable and Christianity is already here. What is the alternative to gedoogcultuur, if not righteous activism?
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Re: Pat Condell: Apologists for Evil
To quote the great liberal, homosexual author and gay-rights activist Bruce Bawer:

""Pat Robertson just wanted to deny me gay marriage; the imams wanted to drop a wall on me.""

I'd rather live in a country dominated by Christians than one dominated by Muslims anyday.
By: poonhound
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Re: Pat Condell: Apologists for Evil
"Anarchism is a political philosophy encompassing theories and attitudes which consider the state, as compulsory government, to be unnecessary, harmful, and/or undesirable, and promote the elimination of the state."

Anarchism is a radical left ideology that used to be more synonomous with libertarianism in the 70s before right wing libertarians became prevelant (which is a far cry from classical anarchist philosophies).

As for your collectivist comment, I always thought collectivism was about stressing community and interdependence over the individual. While anarchism has been portrayed as a highly individualistic political philosophy (and some philosophies are within that broad term of anarchism) most anarchists (at least today, and I suspect in the 60s and 70s as well) believe strongly in the idea of the commune that relies on the cooperation of its cohabitants and not on a government founded on professional politicians. Anarchists for the overwhelming majority ARE collectivists.

And as for your comment that you "do know that anarchy doesn't last very long" it should be said that the word "anarchy" has paradoxically been widely rejected by modern anarchists as it has come to widely been understood as chaos and violence. And anyone who has any legitimate knowlegde of anarchism beyond government and media propagated lies knows that this is not the end goal of an anarchist revolution. Anarchist communes have proven sturdy and self-efficient but usually fall due to that nation's goverment and military taking over and re-installing their power (see the peasants' anarchist movement that happened during the Spanish Civil War).

So there's my Anarchist rant, just thought I'd clear up some stuff since you said your knowledge in this field was limited :)

By: keleona
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Re: Pat Condell: Apologists for Evil
Thanks for your thoughts.

I'd say pure anarchy is as far as you can go to the right. Dictatorships can be found on the other end of the spectrum. But, you know, this is just one way of looking at things. I'm definitely not disagreeing with you, but think the left-right paradigm can most easily be dissected by looking at it like I described.

Collectivism, I think, is placing the majority (or certain other groups) over the individual, resulting in the loss of liberty of the individual while said individual does not breach the rights of other individuals (and these rights are, of course, equal for all). This the collectivists do in the name of the greater good for the, usually, greater number.

"Anarchists for the overwhelming majority ARE collectivists." What if I say that -- and understand I am not well-versed in anarchy (pardon the expression) -- anarchists are people who recognize how their individual rights are best protected by a very limited government, a government that is composed of people in their own community and who benefit by working together for a world that improves the quality of life for all concerned? I do think that makes them automatically individualists, because who benefits from collectivism? In the end, the answer to that question is no one.

Individualism does by no means rule out cooperation, you must understand. Individualism and cooperation are not mutually exclusive.

So, if you think that in an anarchist society (I am speculating here) the individual rights of people are sacred and equal, then I must say you and my views (W_W calling himself a libertarian) are similar. Where the differences are we could find out. Maybe you mean that various communities could write their own rules, which vary from community to community. I'll keep an eye on this thread just in case you are interested in returning.

Also my thanks to RM for writing a reply. Pressing Enter some more is more easy on the eyes, though ;-)
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Re: Pat Condell: Apologists for Evil
I think we disagree a bit on semantics, especially regarding collectivism and individualism, but I agree with your statement that individualism and cooperation are not mutually esclusive. Your take on anarchism is pretty accurate, with the minor detail that anarchism is a so called lack of government, but you can also define a government to be an entire community's responsiblity for self government without proffessional politicians. But "government" in the colloquial meaning of the word does not necessarily describe this. Again, semantics. And yes, these communes would be writing their own rules for social conduct within the society, but if they are founded on anarchist or communist doctrines then these communes would still share many of the same standards.

Also, I will say that Anarchism as a radical movement tends to distance itself much more from the right than the left. However, political allies to radical movements such as anarchist ones are overwhelmingly in the progressive left. And there are only a handful of conservative or right wing libertarian converts and anarchism is much more related to socialism/libertarian socialism, communism and other so called leftist ideologies
By: keleona
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Re: Pat Condell: Apologists for Evil
Really? I thought libertarianism (not talking bout anarchism) smelled more like a republican-fueled thing, atleast at first. I just assumed it's growth had something to do with the republican party breaking up a bit.

I think you're getting anarchism and libertarianism mixed up. The libertarian party doesn't appear to be a permanent political force. It appears to be a temporary compromise between rebublicans and democrats who embrace some of their overlapping ideologies in order to take back the system run amok by totalitarianism. The people are also part of the system of checks and balances in a democracy.
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Re: Pat Condell: Apologists for Evil
That current model of politics is a little bit outdated. It should have totalitarian liberals on the extreme left and totalitarian conservatives on the extreme right. In the middle would be the libertarians, anarchists, etc.
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Re: Pat Condell: Apologists for Evil
Republicans say they like small government, but they also want a large, world-policing army which is basically big government in terms of foreign policy. Democrats say they want individual rights but want to take away your guns.
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Re: Pat Condell: Apologists for Evil
I'd more say just a base hit. But I don't think he ever came around to score.

Sorry for the continuance of the baseball metaphors.
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Re: Pat Condell: Apologists for Evil
Wow. That pretty much sums it up. I love this guy.
By: poonhound
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Re: Pat Condell: Apologists for Evil


forge up a birth certificate and get this guy to Washington
By: Slamo
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Re: Pat Condell: Apologists for Evil
I second that.
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