Highest rating anything by McFarlane got from me in over two years.

how is this entertaining?

how is this relevant?

so he's an atheist.

who cares?

What the hell just happened here? Without a longer clip this short snip doesn't have much relevance to anything at all other than the short "I am an Atheist" from Seth, confirming what everyone who isn't hiding under a rock already knew.

Solidarity, if nothing else. Religion is forefront in media, those who defend it, those who criticize, those who offended because they are religious, those who are offended by those who are religious, but religion is the subject. How many prominent people can you name who are not making money on proclaiming their atheism for a profit (Dawkins books, etc, etc.) who are outspoken about their atheism? A proud Christian will stand up and be counted, but you can only count on the average atheist to watch them on TV and maybe bitch in a blog. I'm proud to have been raised in a suffocating, mind-fuck Christian social setting and then matured into a reasonable, rational person with a realistic world view who can say "I am an Atheist," and not worry what people will think about it. Bill Maher asserted that religion is the enemy of reason and peace, and I find it damn encouraging to see someone as prominent as MacFarlane (who is more or less keeping Fox afloat in Primetime) say it out loud.

Anything above is Act 1. Anything below is Act II. You may call me the Interlude, but God is fine, too. I like to watch and do nothing otherwise. Maybe if one of you is a fair lady virgin, I'll get out of bed, fly down on my space elevator, and fuck you senselessly immaculate and nine months later you will somehow find yourself in a barn crying for mercy. I hope your husband will be loving and caring, because you can be sure I won't lift a finger to alleviate your suffering. Sacrifice a moose, though, in my name, and I might have a surprise for you.

Atheism not a religion? Are you kidding me? It isn't a crime to (correctly) label a set of principles/beliefs/practices/etc. as a 'religion,' primarily because what it boils down to is that any religion is focused on what we, as human beings, are most concerned with. I still see the current separation of science and religion as a de-evolution from past foundational thinkers that were very religious and still able to think rationally and in a progressive manner. Tsk.

I thought this was a fairly harmless clip and wondered why it had been posted, since I thought it was well worn path of how MacFarlane felt about Religion.

Sure solidarity with religion can be a lot easier than "coming out" as an atheist but this just felt to me more like a whimper than an explosion. All a matter of perspective. Get Mel Gibson to do it and watch the media circus on that one.

But due to the amount of response though, I have to retract my opinion. Anyone in entertainment confirming their beliefs "against the norm" is certainly sticking their neck out there and is risking a considerable amount of money. So clap clap Seth, ya have balls !

I posted this deeper on the thread but I spent some time on this and want it on the front page. What can I say, I'm a Narcissist Atheist.

I was thinking about an illustration of this concept. Imagine a person who has lived alone his entire life. He has no name, and has no concept of self. For the sake of argument, let us say he is the last living human, and he was raised impartially by a computer which was entirely without personality, and did nothing more than provide food and medical care and teach the person language and science. This person is completely unaware of the concept of culture or personal-identity, as the only thing he has ever known was instruction in scientific fields of study, mathematics, physics, chemistry, what have you. As an adult, who has learned the net sum of human knowledge in regard to hard science, he has no concept of superstition. For him, there is only known and unknown, and a method of changing the unknown into the known. From here, let us conjecture: Is this person an atheist? If there is no one else to compare him to, does he require a label? What is the significance to him of that which he has never considered?

Now, I'll go further:

This person, now to be known as person A, is NOT the last person alive. He is just as isolated from other people as described before, but there is another person, Person B, who was raised in exactly the same way. Person B is a perfect clone of Person A, is the same age as Person A and has exactly the same level of intelligence. One day, Person B is told by the computer that it was programmed to suggested to that person that there is an invisible being which is all powerful and all knowing but which chooses not to ever reveal itself in a way which can be observed or measured, about which nothing can be proved scientifically because it leaves no evidence at all of it's existence. The being exists entirely inside the realm of theory. Person B concludes that because he cannot disprove the existence of the being, that further conjecture is pointless.

Is Person B at this time an Atheist? If so, how does his belief structure differ from that of Person A? Do Person A and B now belong to a religion, though neither are familiar with the concept of religion, and there is no one else to be excluded from the religion? If every living person belongs to the same religion, what is the value of a label?

Let us conjecture further yet:

There is a third Person, Person C.

Person C has received no scientific instruction. He has only enough language to understand the concepts of the religion which the computer describes to him. Let us say this religion is described thusly: Person C believes God exists, and that God communicated with people who lived in the past and who are now dead and leave no further record than that which the computer relates, that record being only that the people who did exist at one time believed that God communicated with them. What God communicated was that any Person who does not accept his existence would be killed by God and that such a person would be tortured forever after being killed. Person C has only the word of people he has never met and knows nothing except the word of those people to convince him of they're ideas, but he also has no reason to doubt as no alternative has ever been suggested. He also has no idea what death is or whether or not he will die himself, as he has no knowledge of science. He doesn't even know what the difference between life and death is.

Does Person C belong to a religion?

If so, are Person A and Person B members of a religion? Is it the same religion, or do they have different religions?

Now, let us introduce Person C and Person B. They do not meet in person, but communicate through the computer. Person C describes to Person B his beliefs. Person B considers the suggestions of Person C and replies that the beliefs of Person C are false, because a person cannot be tortured after death. He still cannot disprove the existence of God, but neither can he prove it. He disbelieves that if God exists he kills people but has no belief in regard to the existence of God.

Does Person B belong to a religion? Does Person A? Are the religions of Person A and B the same?

Person C, upon hearing that Person B does not believe in God realizes that if God were real, Person B should have been killed. Person C becomes convinced that he was lied to about God, and that his religion was false. He now believes that God does NOT exist, because his belief system is closed and cyclic.

So, the facts are:

Person A has never heard of God.

Person B has heard of God, but can neither prove nor disprove God's existence.

Person C actively believes that God does NOT exist.

None actively believe that God exists.



----------------------------

Which Person(s) has/have religion?

If more than one has a religion, which ones?

If they do, are they the same religion?

What criteria would you use to determine the answers to these questions?

My challenge for anyone who will accept it is this:

Prove logically that each is an atheist, and identify the common characteristic can be found in each Person which ties them together as an Atheist. Only one example is needed, but it must be found to be applicable to all three Persons.

Extra Credit:

Prove that the computer, which communicates and reacts to each person as dynamically and completely as any two of the people can interact, is not itself an atheist.

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