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Obama Moves to Legalize Warrantless Wiretapping
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Keith Olbermann reporting on Obama's latest push for a stronger blend of fascism.
Apr 8, 2009 11:03 AM
Re: Obama Moves to Legalize Warrantless Wiretapping
After these last few elections, I cannt see how anyone would vote for either of the two Parties.
By: bloorgg
Re: Obama Moves to Legalize Warrantless Wiretapping
It's all about staying in power. Sad.
By: spam_vigilante
Re: Obama Moves to Legalize Warrantless Wiretapping
It's official, obama is a puppet. Any that denys it now truly has their head in the sand.
Re: Obama Moves to Legalize Warrantless Wiretapping
Even Obama's apologists can no longer defend his egregious actions. And it's been...what? Not even 3 months since he took office?
Lots of us at M&C have been talking about Obama being the continuation of the neocon agenda even since before his won the election. Bush's Bailout? Obama's Stimulus? Same thing. Well, except Obama's is a bigger price tag on the American taxpayer.
Both parties' goal is the final looting of the US to bankrupt the nation and decimate the middle class thus returning the land to a post-industrial neo-feudal system of lords, peasants, and church.
Lots of us at M&C have been talking about Obama being the continuation of the neocon agenda even since before his won the election. Bush's Bailout? Obama's Stimulus? Same thing. Well, except Obama's is a bigger price tag on the American taxpayer.
Both parties' goal is the final looting of the US to bankrupt the nation and decimate the middle class thus returning the land to a post-industrial neo-feudal system of lords, peasants, and church.
Re: Obama Moves to Legalize Warrantless Wiretapping
I'm not arguing for or against this move by Obama or even him as an individual, but seriously?
Both parties final goal is the looting of the US? Let's not jump to any conclusion here or anything and be a total drama queen. To what end my friend does this do anything for anyone. People do what they think is best, sometimes they're right and sometimes they're wrong. And best for whom? well that's for them to decide. Unless you run for any office or change your voting procedure try to add something constructive or at least thought out.
I'm sure all the fats cats in DC are lookngi forward ot the next feudal system :/
Both parties final goal is the looting of the US? Let's not jump to any conclusion here or anything and be a total drama queen. To what end my friend does this do anything for anyone. People do what they think is best, sometimes they're right and sometimes they're wrong. And best for whom? well that's for them to decide. Unless you run for any office or change your voting procedure try to add something constructive or at least thought out.
I'm sure all the fats cats in DC are lookngi forward ot the next feudal system :/
By: chernabog
Re: Obama Moves to Legalize Warrantless Wiretapping
He could have worded it better, but he's basically right, the destruction of the middle class is high on the agenda. Bush and Obama work for different corporations, but they have similar interests.
Re: Obama Moves to Legalize Warrantless Wiretapping
Wow, ya go away for a day and...
Okay, respectfully, here's how it works. Bush's Bailout begat Obama's Stimulus. Both plans' were backed by the exact same banking and corporate powers. Same people. Same outcome.
The goal of both Bailout/Stimulus is to leverage the American people (1) borrowing heavily from China, et al and (2) paying the (private) Fed to print fiat money. It's all billed to the US taxpayer. And these "Bailout/Stimulus Dollars" are going straight to banks/multinational corporations to replace their wealth lost from poor investments, the decline in real estate, a loss of market share, and net inflation.
And with $16 Billion of our tax dollars (thus far) sent directly overseas to create *foreign* industry and jobs? With us paying the bill? To support multinational corps? Yeah...that's what we call "looting." And by looting the American middle class to strengthen operations overseas, these same corporations have been creating a "global workforce" laboring for the lowest dollar in a feudalistic system. Or Sinclair-ian if you'd rather.
This movement has decimated the middle class. Businesses making money off the taxpayer have done it for years. The corporate, banking, and political powers don't care about you or your well being. They care about their wealth.
But there is always hope. And that hope is working within your local community to create a largely self-sustaining micro-economy. Food production. Local industry. Keep your dollars (or perhaps a regional currency?) local and resources self-sustainable.
Thus you take the power out of the multinationals and banks and public servants and keep it in your hands and wallets. Don't look for Obama or Jack Welch or Mitt Romney to be a daddy figure and save you.
Be proactive. Do it yourself. Get excited! It's awesome.
...or call people names. Whatever you think will work, really.
-The Total Drama Queen
Okay, respectfully, here's how it works. Bush's Bailout begat Obama's Stimulus. Both plans' were backed by the exact same banking and corporate powers. Same people. Same outcome.
The goal of both Bailout/Stimulus is to leverage the American people (1) borrowing heavily from China, et al and (2) paying the (private) Fed to print fiat money. It's all billed to the US taxpayer. And these "Bailout/Stimulus Dollars" are going straight to banks/multinational corporations to replace their wealth lost from poor investments, the decline in real estate, a loss of market share, and net inflation.
And with $16 Billion of our tax dollars (thus far) sent directly overseas to create *foreign* industry and jobs? With us paying the bill? To support multinational corps? Yeah...that's what we call "looting." And by looting the American middle class to strengthen operations overseas, these same corporations have been creating a "global workforce" laboring for the lowest dollar in a feudalistic system. Or Sinclair-ian if you'd rather.
This movement has decimated the middle class. Businesses making money off the taxpayer have done it for years. The corporate, banking, and political powers don't care about you or your well being. They care about their wealth.
But there is always hope. And that hope is working within your local community to create a largely self-sustaining micro-economy. Food production. Local industry. Keep your dollars (or perhaps a regional currency?) local and resources self-sustainable.
Thus you take the power out of the multinationals and banks and public servants and keep it in your hands and wallets. Don't look for Obama or Jack Welch or Mitt Romney to be a daddy figure and save you.
Be proactive. Do it yourself. Get excited! It's awesome.
...or call people names. Whatever you think will work, really.
-The Total Drama Queen
Re: Obama Moves to Legalize Warrantless Wiretapping
Really? You've been saying it all along? Neocon agenda? For real?
I wish things were that black and white. Obama was supposed to be the second coming or something. Now that he seems to be going his own way he's pushing a Neocon agenda. Could it be that the agenda being pushed doesn't warrant such a black and white description?
I feel we live in a world of bureaucracies. Thousands of such bureaucracies exist in the government. This is a multi headed snake. Some heads are good for the people and some are not. You just have to know which one to cut off and realize that in the end they are all attached to the same body.
I wish things were that black and white. Obama was supposed to be the second coming or something. Now that he seems to be going his own way he's pushing a Neocon agenda. Could it be that the agenda being pushed doesn't warrant such a black and white description?
I feel we live in a world of bureaucracies. Thousands of such bureaucracies exist in the government. This is a multi headed snake. Some heads are good for the people and some are not. You just have to know which one to cut off and realize that in the end they are all attached to the same body.
By: ejayerik
Re: Obama Moves to Legalize Warrantless Wiretapping
That's wishful thinking, but there's no way for anyone to get anywhere in politics without satisfying the powers that be, i.e. big money interests.
There's a few exceptions, but they are rare.
There's a few exceptions, but they are rare.
Re: Obama Moves to Legalize Warrantless Wiretapping
Think of the powers that be as the hunger of the snake. Doesn't matter what head feeds because it all goes to the same place.
Simplistic as it is, it's a more pragmatic way of thinking than political party agenda.
Simplistic as it is, it's a more pragmatic way of thinking than political party agenda.
By: ejayerik
Re: Obama Moves to Legalize Warrantless Wiretapping
Perhaps it's a political move to get some of the republicans more on board.
I don't think there is anything in the constitution that says anything about a right to privacy when it comes to sending your communications through some company's communication network (electronic or paper). I'm pretty sure the constitution just says you have a right not to have your PROPERTY "unreasonably" searched/seized without appropriate legal means such as a search warrant. Your communications, through any type of commercial communications medium, is the property of the company who runs the communications medium - not your property. So I don't think what the government is doing is unconstitutional per se, it's just really ugly. I think that if you don't have a good enough reason to spy on someone to obtain a warrant then you should fuck off. And that's what the communications industry needs to be telling the government. But they aren't. That's whats sad.
I don't think there is anything in the constitution that says anything about a right to privacy when it comes to sending your communications through some company's communication network (electronic or paper). I'm pretty sure the constitution just says you have a right not to have your PROPERTY "unreasonably" searched/seized without appropriate legal means such as a search warrant. Your communications, through any type of commercial communications medium, is the property of the company who runs the communications medium - not your property. So I don't think what the government is doing is unconstitutional per se, it's just really ugly. I think that if you don't have a good enough reason to spy on someone to obtain a warrant then you should fuck off. And that's what the communications industry needs to be telling the government. But they aren't. That's whats sad.
By: KeyserSosay
Re: Obama Moves to Legalize Warrantless Wiretapping
If you want to do something about it then boycott the communications companies involved. Go back to communicating the old fashioned way. The American people don't realize how much they can be involved with the checks and balances system in our country. They just think they get to vote once every four years.
By: KeyserSosay
Re: Obama Moves to Legalize Warrantless Wiretapping
The real issue is there is a law currently in place that *already* allows our public servants to spy on our private communications. But...this very law requires a judge to issue a warrant. A warrant that can be obtained up to 72 hours *after* the spying has occurred. Easy peasy.
So why wouldn't our public servants want to do this? Because that warrant requires checks and balances. A paper trail. Accountability to We, The People who pay their salaries. And they don't want any of that.
But if they have nothing to hide, they shouldn't mind having a paper trail documenting their actions. No brainer. Right?
So why wouldn't our public servants want to do this? Because that warrant requires checks and balances. A paper trail. Accountability to We, The People who pay their salaries. And they don't want any of that.
But if they have nothing to hide, they shouldn't mind having a paper trail documenting their actions. No brainer. Right?
Re: Obama Moves to Legalize Warrantless Wiretapping
Another item of interest to observe here is that Olbermann and MSNBC are the ones calling the Obama Administration out on this one. Both are determinedly left-leaning. How many times would a Rupert Murdoch property be caught dead complaining about a GOP administration currently in power?
Methinks that there is hope.
Methinks that there is hope.
By: spam_vigilante
Re: Obama Moves to Legalize Warrantless Wiretapping
Shame on all of you to criticize Obama for this! What kind of Americans are you? He is just doing something that every one of you would do it.
The world is in recession, people are losing their jobs...you know...the stuff..
It’s the coolest idea. First you wiretap every suspected individual, then you need to hire hundreds of thousands of people to listen to that stuff ... unemployment goes down, and if you are lucky you may get hired.
It would be awesome to wiretap your ex girlfriends house because her new boyfriend looks like Muslim fundamentalist (even though he is Portuguese), and then when you find out he has erectile disorders , just call her and say: “remember those good old days my little muffin?” And she is like: “how do you know I was just thinking about you?”
The world is in recession, people are losing their jobs...you know...the stuff..
It’s the coolest idea. First you wiretap every suspected individual, then you need to hire hundreds of thousands of people to listen to that stuff ... unemployment goes down, and if you are lucky you may get hired.
It would be awesome to wiretap your ex girlfriends house because her new boyfriend looks like Muslim fundamentalist (even though he is Portuguese), and then when you find out he has erectile disorders , just call her and say: “remember those good old days my little muffin?” And she is like: “how do you know I was just thinking about you?”
By: flopnik
Re: Obama Moves to Legalize Warrantless Wiretapping
And you feel cool ... because you know you are not the only one with erectile disorders!
By: flopnik
Re: Obama Moves to Legalize Warrantless Wiretapping
"Oh ah, oh aaaah, oh God oh God yes yes yes ooooooohhhhhh!"
Some guy in a tiny cubicle looks at the clock on his desk and his feet planted next to it. If he is fast, he can just make it and nail the son of a bitch outside his home, maybe next the azalea bushes yeah that would be cool, to flatten the fucker's nose and break that neck of his. Yeah. The guy in the cubicle gets up, packs his suitcase, and heads for a somewhat bigger cubicle near the water cooler. His head is swirling with all sorts of excuses, some lame, some pretty darn outlandish, but one seems good enough.
...
The boss averts his eyes from the fleshy calendars on his walls to inspect the intruder.
"Mr. Flopnik, right? Ain't it?"
The guy we just met in his cubicle now clamps his suitcase to his body, like he's standing in a fridge and trying very hard not to shiver. "Mr. Halloran," he blurts out. "Mr Halloran."
"Yeah, speak up, man," the boss replies and makes a move to crank up the ooohing and aaahhing that washes out his sleek laptop. I ain't got no time all day."
"Mr. Halloran ..."
The boss slams his fist into the flat of his other hand. "Oh for God's sake, get on with it."
"Mr. Halloran, I forgot to feed my cat, and he's real hun--" but that's not what he said and now the boss is slapping him on his back and inviting him for lunch tomorrow.
When the guy stands outside the boss's cubicle, he doesn't know for a moment what to do, nor does he know what he just said. All he knows -- feels, rather -- is the boss pushing him to the elevator. It's not until the guy stops digging his heels into the linoleum that he's propelled forward and starts to swing his suitcase around (carefully not hitting the boss, of course).
Downstairs, the guy has a sprightly step and within a minute he has also landed himself a cab using a bellowing voice that still reverberates in downtown Vancouver as he speeds through traffic to the suburbs.
"To the azalea bushes," the guy thinks, and offers the driver a twenty if he can go FASTER!!! and finds a channel with Balkan techno crap just in case he loses the heat of the moment. Small chance of that, because now his suit and tie are torn and the driver has been thrown out the door and been mashed into the road by a bus and he's spinning the wheel to evade a fire hydrant and WHAT! three mothers with their prams CRUNCH! SPLAT his windscreen is awash with stuff, so he drives even faster and THERE HE IS! the son of a bitch. The son of a bitch speeds by him on a bicycle what a lame ass, must be gay, destroy the son of a bitch. He hits the brakes, turns, and goes into an even bigger murderous rage that fortunately allows him to zigzag through the sugar maples lining the once so pleasant suburbian street. Now one kid is bawling because his toy tractor has seen better times, and a dog limps to safety behind trash cans (whoops!) not so safe there. The trash cans fly through the air and now he has nailed the son of a bitch right where he deserved to get nailed. The guy who moments ago humped his wife now lies in a crumpled state beside an abandoned police car.
The dust settles, and one can now see that dozens of houses here have For Sale signs planted on their lawns gone to wilderness. Somewhere off to the distance, where the local park has gone native, a wolf howls, which is rather odd, but maybe not.
Too bad the story must end here.
Some guy in a tiny cubicle looks at the clock on his desk and his feet planted next to it. If he is fast, he can just make it and nail the son of a bitch outside his home, maybe next the azalea bushes yeah that would be cool, to flatten the fucker's nose and break that neck of his. Yeah. The guy in the cubicle gets up, packs his suitcase, and heads for a somewhat bigger cubicle near the water cooler. His head is swirling with all sorts of excuses, some lame, some pretty darn outlandish, but one seems good enough.
...
The boss averts his eyes from the fleshy calendars on his walls to inspect the intruder.
"Mr. Flopnik, right? Ain't it?"
The guy we just met in his cubicle now clamps his suitcase to his body, like he's standing in a fridge and trying very hard not to shiver. "Mr. Halloran," he blurts out. "Mr Halloran."
"Yeah, speak up, man," the boss replies and makes a move to crank up the ooohing and aaahhing that washes out his sleek laptop. I ain't got no time all day."
"Mr. Halloran ..."
The boss slams his fist into the flat of his other hand. "Oh for God's sake, get on with it."
"Mr. Halloran, I forgot to feed my cat, and he's real hun--" but that's not what he said and now the boss is slapping him on his back and inviting him for lunch tomorrow.
When the guy stands outside the boss's cubicle, he doesn't know for a moment what to do, nor does he know what he just said. All he knows -- feels, rather -- is the boss pushing him to the elevator. It's not until the guy stops digging his heels into the linoleum that he's propelled forward and starts to swing his suitcase around (carefully not hitting the boss, of course).
Downstairs, the guy has a sprightly step and within a minute he has also landed himself a cab using a bellowing voice that still reverberates in downtown Vancouver as he speeds through traffic to the suburbs.
"To the azalea bushes," the guy thinks, and offers the driver a twenty if he can go FASTER!!! and finds a channel with Balkan techno crap just in case he loses the heat of the moment. Small chance of that, because now his suit and tie are torn and the driver has been thrown out the door and been mashed into the road by a bus and he's spinning the wheel to evade a fire hydrant and WHAT! three mothers with their prams CRUNCH! SPLAT his windscreen is awash with stuff, so he drives even faster and THERE HE IS! the son of a bitch. The son of a bitch speeds by him on a bicycle what a lame ass, must be gay, destroy the son of a bitch. He hits the brakes, turns, and goes into an even bigger murderous rage that fortunately allows him to zigzag through the sugar maples lining the once so pleasant suburbian street. Now one kid is bawling because his toy tractor has seen better times, and a dog limps to safety behind trash cans (whoops!) not so safe there. The trash cans fly through the air and now he has nailed the son of a bitch right where he deserved to get nailed. The guy who moments ago humped his wife now lies in a crumpled state beside an abandoned police car.
The dust settles, and one can now see that dozens of houses here have For Sale signs planted on their lawns gone to wilderness. Somewhere off to the distance, where the local park has gone native, a wolf howls, which is rather odd, but maybe not.
Too bad the story must end here.
Re: Obama Moves to Legalize Warrantless Wiretapping
Amazing!!!
It's like I posted little car crash video, and David Cronenberg replied to my post with entire movie!
It's like I posted little car crash video, and David Cronenberg replied to my post with entire movie!
By: flopnik
Re: Obama Moves to Legalize Warrantless Wiretapping
I don't know, to me Keith Olbermann's always been quick to judge a party's actions—sometimes without addressing all of the facts, just so it causes more sensation. I think it's a bit too easy to immediately declare "Obama likes wiretapping!" I'm sure there is more to this "scandal" than meets the eye.
By: tgreatblueberry
Re: Obama Moves to Legalize Warrantless Wiretapping
If that's the case then Obama should explain himself.
By: gerrywastaken
Re: Obama Moves to Legalize Warrantless Wiretapping
First of all, I supported Obama in the election.
Just because you support someone in a campaign, you don't have to follow him or her lockstep once elected. In fact, it is your duty to keep an eye on said politician as someone who helped get them there.
I think this is a horrible approach by the Obama administration, but it's hard to make the argument that so far his election hasn't been a positive step forward for the country. I'm a political independent, but a lot of supposed independents tend to hide behind the argument of "both parties suck" instead of actually taking a stance.
Obama is wrong about this (and about some other major policies), but can you really name a president in our history who has been right on every issue? They're leaders, so they make calculated decisions. It doesn't make them all evil.
Support him when he's right, and go after him when he's wrong. Don't just sit there saying he's just like the last guy when he's clearly not.
Just because you support someone in a campaign, you don't have to follow him or her lockstep once elected. In fact, it is your duty to keep an eye on said politician as someone who helped get them there.
I think this is a horrible approach by the Obama administration, but it's hard to make the argument that so far his election hasn't been a positive step forward for the country. I'm a political independent, but a lot of supposed independents tend to hide behind the argument of "both parties suck" instead of actually taking a stance.
Obama is wrong about this (and about some other major policies), but can you really name a president in our history who has been right on every issue? They're leaders, so they make calculated decisions. It doesn't make them all evil.
Support him when he's right, and go after him when he's wrong. Don't just sit there saying he's just like the last guy when he's clearly not.
By: the_monk
Re: Obama Moves to Legalize Warrantless Wiretapping
I dont think most of us independants hide behind the "both parties suck" banner. Rather, I think we hold it on high and proclaim it loudly, or should. It is true that we need to do more then say they suck, which is why we need to vote for others then republacrats or continue to watch the rape of our own country. We need to not be fat, lazy, uniformed americans, and research local and state politicians to create a larger pool of people to vote for on the national level.
By: bloorgg
Re: Obama Moves to Legalize Warrantless Wiretapping
Big ups to Keith for being consistent. What was good for Bush, is good for Obama. Bravo, Sir!
By: shitba
