Martial Law
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Now that the US has dragged the world into a recession, which may at any moment turn really nasty and become a long depression, many countries face civil unrest. The US government has been preparing itself for just such an event, so don't be surprised when Homeland Security shows up at your door. The central banks are laughing their heads off -- again.
Jan 20, 2009 5:19 AM
Re: Martial Law
There've been radio show hosts and garage-published writers that have been warning us about an imminent police state for decades. I'm not saying that it's impossible; I think we're all familiar with the 'boiling frog' analogy regarding the erosion of our civil rights by the Bush administration, by now. However, I'm going to say this is pretty unlikely, if for no other reason than because our military has never been more attenuated than it is right now. That leaves whom, exactly, to enforce this police state? The cops, who are already facing budget cuts due to poor tax revenues?
By: Oh-Deeh
Re: Martial Law
You have to take into account the "People Factor" though. The Government exists only because we the people allow it to exist. If even 1/100 marched to Washington, or to their local government's federal building, what the government do? Cops are people too, and they wouldn't kill innocent civilians.
By: grahamce
Re: Martial Law
That is to say, you would HOPE that MOST wouldn't kill innocent civilians. "Good" people can do terrible things when they have the excuse of "orders."
By: Faffy
Re: Martial Law
Can't say I agree with "The government exists because we allow it to exist". Mostly because there are a lot of things that exist in the political and social structure of this country that in just about everyone's opinion should not....yet there they are.
By: ejayerik
Re: Martial Law
Does the fact that a writer is "garage-published" diminish his validity? Especially given the corporate nature of the Publishing world, the rapidly diminishing number of titles produced each year, and our heightened focus on commerce over art?
Just a question... :) Because your statement serves to marginalize those whose books aren't found with the Random House or Simon & Schuster seal of approval on their bindings.
There are a number of highly lauded "garage publishers" (aka what Americans used to praise as "independent" before our nation began its full-scale worship of CEOs) And many of these publishers like Feral House, Dilettante, Disinfo, etc deliver highly profitable, award-winning books. And there are even smaller "garage" publishers like Adam Gorightly who puts out his own writings.
But, yes, these folks don't sell as many copies as John Grisham or Bill O'Reilly or Al Franken. So these other writers are probably bullsh!t...
Beyond that, I do agree that there have been many folks who resorted to histrionics in warning America of an imminent police state. And yet... We have unarguably seen a more controlling society in the last 30 years. From increased illegal surveillance to random stops to unconstitutional search and seizure.
We've seen a greater police state than ever before. So is it time to start paying attention yet? If not? Why?
And you've the info to answer your own question. You've seen and commented on the clip about Obama's National Civilian Security Force. People need jobs. Obama wants to continue borrowing money from China to fund a civilian military force...which provides people jobs and answers your question asking "That leaves whom, exactly, to enforce this police state?"
Us.
Just a question... :) Because your statement serves to marginalize those whose books aren't found with the Random House or Simon & Schuster seal of approval on their bindings.
There are a number of highly lauded "garage publishers" (aka what Americans used to praise as "independent" before our nation began its full-scale worship of CEOs) And many of these publishers like Feral House, Dilettante, Disinfo, etc deliver highly profitable, award-winning books. And there are even smaller "garage" publishers like Adam Gorightly who puts out his own writings.
But, yes, these folks don't sell as many copies as John Grisham or Bill O'Reilly or Al Franken. So these other writers are probably bullsh!t...
Beyond that, I do agree that there have been many folks who resorted to histrionics in warning America of an imminent police state. And yet... We have unarguably seen a more controlling society in the last 30 years. From increased illegal surveillance to random stops to unconstitutional search and seizure.
We've seen a greater police state than ever before. So is it time to start paying attention yet? If not? Why?
And you've the info to answer your own question. You've seen and commented on the clip about Obama's National Civilian Security Force. People need jobs. Obama wants to continue borrowing money from China to fund a civilian military force...which provides people jobs and answers your question asking "That leaves whom, exactly, to enforce this police state?"
Us.
Re: Martial Law
I'm sorry if you inferred any derision towards independent publishers; I've actually been published by an independent, myself. I was referring to self-published writers, whose works--with some possible exceptions--never go through a professional editing process, to include fact-checking. Don't get me wrong, friend, more than enough unsupported crap gets published by the main-stream media, as well. Otherwise, how else would we even know Ann Coulter's name?
And I guess the "histrionics" of these doomsayers is exactly the crux of my skepticism. My very concern is that our liberties will be eroded too slowly for most people to notice or care, and not dramatically snatched from us after the burning of the Reichstag, like they too often warn.
Maybe our disconnect--since ideologically, you and I have agreed plenty of times in the past--lies in what I feel might be the two very different definitions of "police state" that you and I are thinking of. I think your definition is a little broader, and might include even the slightest tipping of the scale that balances our liberties with the protection our government offers. In which case, I wholeheartedly agree with you that we have been in a worsening police state since... probably the enactment of the Controlled Substances Act of 1971.
The definition of "Police state" that I was thinking about when I left the above comment is on the more extreme, Orwellian end of the scale. So I guess my point is that warning us of that level of oppression is a little bit of a distraction from the fight that we should be putting up to preserve each of our liberties, on a case-by-case basis.
And I'm honestly disappointed in you, Buck, that you would suggest that Obama's proposing a paramilitary, or "civilian military force." Did you read my comments regarding the civilian defense initiatives that Obama proposed? Or, say, read or heard the whole speech--the only speech--where he phrased it like that? What he's talking about is serving the community. Like Brazil, which trains its civilians to respond to natural disasters so that the military can focus on protecting the borders (hence, "defense"). Basically, he wants to 'force' kids to put down their i-phones and think about someone other than themselves for a few months of their lives, before they can expect to receive federal aide.
And I guess the "histrionics" of these doomsayers is exactly the crux of my skepticism. My very concern is that our liberties will be eroded too slowly for most people to notice or care, and not dramatically snatched from us after the burning of the Reichstag, like they too often warn.
Maybe our disconnect--since ideologically, you and I have agreed plenty of times in the past--lies in what I feel might be the two very different definitions of "police state" that you and I are thinking of. I think your definition is a little broader, and might include even the slightest tipping of the scale that balances our liberties with the protection our government offers. In which case, I wholeheartedly agree with you that we have been in a worsening police state since... probably the enactment of the Controlled Substances Act of 1971.
The definition of "Police state" that I was thinking about when I left the above comment is on the more extreme, Orwellian end of the scale. So I guess my point is that warning us of that level of oppression is a little bit of a distraction from the fight that we should be putting up to preserve each of our liberties, on a case-by-case basis.
And I'm honestly disappointed in you, Buck, that you would suggest that Obama's proposing a paramilitary, or "civilian military force." Did you read my comments regarding the civilian defense initiatives that Obama proposed? Or, say, read or heard the whole speech--the only speech--where he phrased it like that? What he's talking about is serving the community. Like Brazil, which trains its civilians to respond to natural disasters so that the military can focus on protecting the borders (hence, "defense"). Basically, he wants to 'force' kids to put down their i-phones and think about someone other than themselves for a few months of their lives, before they can expect to receive federal aide.
By: Oh-Deeh
Re: Martial Law
Forgot one thing.
In late 2008, the United States assigned the 1st Brigade Combat Team of the 3rd Infantry Division to occupy the United States.
This Combat Arms Brigade with Support provides command and control for federal homeland defense and will coordinate for defense support with civil authorities.
According to 1st BCT commander COL Roger Cloutier, their mission is crowd control designed to subdue unruly or dangerous individuals.
And per the Army Times, once the Brigade completes its one-year assignment," expectations are that another, as yet unnamed, active-duty brigade will take over and that the mission will be a permanent one."
Police State? :) Nah... That's crazy talk.
In late 2008, the United States assigned the 1st Brigade Combat Team of the 3rd Infantry Division to occupy the United States.
This Combat Arms Brigade with Support provides command and control for federal homeland defense and will coordinate for defense support with civil authorities.
According to 1st BCT commander COL Roger Cloutier, their mission is crowd control designed to subdue unruly or dangerous individuals.
And per the Army Times, once the Brigade completes its one-year assignment," expectations are that another, as yet unnamed, active-duty brigade will take over and that the mission will be a permanent one."
Police State? :) Nah... That's crazy talk.
Re: Martial Law
I'm very familiar with the Raider Brigade's 'deployment' to the US. What COL Cloutier was describing as their mission is exactly the same mission the National Guard has had for a hundred years.
Have you ever worked with the National Guard? It's a crap-shoot, man; sometimes, you're dealing with well-trained professionals, sometimes you're dealing with Bubba and his cousin Jim-Bob. So the Raiders, and whomever takes their place, are designated as a federal representative in the case of domestic emergencies. Basically, the CCMRF's will perform the same role as the National Guard, but with full-time, rather than part-time, soldiers. (It's usually the poorly-trained or undisciplined soldier who makes civilian/military encounters escalate. So yes, that is comforting to me.)
Again, I'm not saying it's impossible that they might abuse their power, or someone above them might abuse their role. I'm just saying it's not likely.
What is likely--and in fact has already occurred--is that the media, our legislature, and we the voters have sat idly by as something as asinine as the Patriot Act flies through Capitol Hill. What we should be talking about is how we can prevent that from happening again.
Have you ever worked with the National Guard? It's a crap-shoot, man; sometimes, you're dealing with well-trained professionals, sometimes you're dealing with Bubba and his cousin Jim-Bob. So the Raiders, and whomever takes their place, are designated as a federal representative in the case of domestic emergencies. Basically, the CCMRF's will perform the same role as the National Guard, but with full-time, rather than part-time, soldiers. (It's usually the poorly-trained or undisciplined soldier who makes civilian/military encounters escalate. So yes, that is comforting to me.)
Again, I'm not saying it's impossible that they might abuse their power, or someone above them might abuse their role. I'm just saying it's not likely.
What is likely--and in fact has already occurred--is that the media, our legislature, and we the voters have sat idly by as something as asinine as the Patriot Act flies through Capitol Hill. What we should be talking about is how we can prevent that from happening again.
By: Oh-Deeh
Re: Martial Law
Um, does Blackwater ring a bell? Remember, those guys who set up martial law in New Orleans?
The government does need US troops or cops to do this job when mercenaries are ready and willing.
The government does need US troops or cops to do this job when mercenaries are ready and willing.
By: chronomitch
Re: Martial Law
I'm sure you'd be bitching about McCain had he won in November 2008. Am I right?
By: spam_vigilante
Re: Martial Law
I don’t think this is plausible scenario. For few reasons:
-USA is now in really significant debt to international banks and the last think the rest of the world wants to see is collapse of American economy, regardless if they are currently able to repay it or not.
-Superpowers are history. USA will slowly move away from that “image” and focus on co-operation with other nations. Just see former USSR. Russians are now much more cooperative then they were during the cold war (regardless of their current faults).
-Bottom line: civil unrest in USA (caused by economical collapse) would hurt global stability (chaos) ... no one is so stupid not to financially/economically help USA, not necessarily because they love them...but it is for the sake of basic survival of our world ... and if it takes some political-economical “manoeuvres” on international level ... they will be taken!
-USA is now in really significant debt to international banks and the last think the rest of the world wants to see is collapse of American economy, regardless if they are currently able to repay it or not.
-Superpowers are history. USA will slowly move away from that “image” and focus on co-operation with other nations. Just see former USSR. Russians are now much more cooperative then they were during the cold war (regardless of their current faults).
-Bottom line: civil unrest in USA (caused by economical collapse) would hurt global stability (chaos) ... no one is so stupid not to financially/economically help USA, not necessarily because they love them...but it is for the sake of basic survival of our world ... and if it takes some political-economical “manoeuvres” on international level ... they will be taken!
By: flopnik