Homeland Security: Obedience Training

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Homeland Security: Obedience Training
DHS Checkpoint Blog Entry 14: Obedience Training. November 26th, 2008. Location: Homeland Security checkpoint along Southern Arizona's SR86 near mile post 146. SR86 is an East-West public highway located over 40 miles North of the border and never intersects the border at any point.
Dec 24, 2008 10:19 AM
Re: Obedience Training
5* for the civil disobedience and both tense and humorous moments.

But just MHO... these men are just doing their jobs. The better method of voicing complaint is from above.
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Re: Obedience Training
I think this serves as an awareness tool rather than a complaint. Don't be surprised of you see more videos like this or more 'checkpoints' throughout the country.

This is one of the reasons I left the DHS. It's full of noble people just 'doing their jobs,' but they don't understand how close it resembles fascism, or a system approaching fascism. The DHS is merely a tool for civilian control dressed up as a wounded firefighter hoisting a charred American flag on 9/11.

(If no one hears from me again, it's because they've taken me away.)

-snark-
By: luclonde
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Re: Obedience Training
You were DHS?!

Narc! ;-)
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Re: Obedience Training
Totally.
By: luclonde
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Re: Obedience Training
I bet I know why you got fired. Oh, and you DID get fired.
By: faxis2k
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You don't get 'fired' from DHS, civi.
By: luclonde
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Re: Obedience Training
Wow! What other surprises have you got in store for us? Were you, by chance, also an employee of Sauron?

(Excellent decision to leave the DHS. My compliments.)
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Re: Obedience Training
Chilling.
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Re: Obedience Training
I wonder what would have happened if he had just driven off?
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Re: Obedience Training
Yeah, I was wondering the exact same thing... I guess he was forcing them to state on camera that they have no legal basis for detaining him or any of us.
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Re: Homeland Security: Obedience Training
Harassing these guys with faux "civil disobedience" is pointless. This camerman is just being a prick. This isn't civil disobedience, it's asinine.

If I walked up to a Chicago PD officer and pulled this shit, acting like a dink for no reason whatsoever, they'd have every reason to stop me for suspicious behavior and have the right to question me.

He baited them, never answered any of their questions, then claimed his rights were somehow being trampled because these men were doing their jobs.

"Answer the question and you are free to go."

"I don't need to answer your question."

Yes buddy, you do.

They try to give him a copy of the regulations, which he refuses to accept.

Agent Gill says "He wants to play a game". Exactly.

Then he's told "you may go sir", at which point he continues to harass the officers.

What a douche bag.

I'm no fan of the DHS and don't think it should exist at all. But this b.s. serves no purpose.
By: decavolt
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Re: Homeland Security: Obedience Training
They are not cops. The whole point of the video is that they don't have the authority to pull people over within the US border to challenge their citizenship.

Doofus.
By: luclonde
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Re: Homeland Security: Obedience Training
Deca, I generally enjoy your comments, but you're way off this time.

Your analogy of the Chicago PD doesn't work. Yes, if you "walked up to a Chicago PD office...acting like a dink," you may perhaps give the officer a reason to detain or question you.

But this guy didn't walk up to the DHS. They stopped him on public property. As part of their militarized checkpoint. To question his US citizenship. Within the borders of the US. It's not a legal stop.

Part of our American Revolution was to fight against this very same treatment by British soldiers. Our forefathers hardly thought defending their rights against it was pointless. Some died for it.

And that's the guy's point. These public servants from DHS have no reason to detain him or anyone else. And you may think this exercise was painful, but the entire point of capturing it on camera was to document them stating that they have no justification to stop him or anyone else.

Going back to cops, it's the same scenario if the Chicago PD stopped you for no reason at all. They don't have that right.

As long as our actions are not breaking the law, they answer to us. Not the other way around.
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Re: Homeland Security: Obedience Training
I don't agree with you about this.

The purpose of this exercise wasn't to be a douchbag to the agents.

The purpose was to demonstrate that they were requiring him to answer a question that they did not have a legal right to demand within US borders. That's why he keeps asking if he is being detained. He already knows that there is no legal reason to detain based on his refusal to verify his citizenship. But if they had actually arrested him, he would have used it to launch a lawsuit in the hopes of proving the unconstitutionality of the checkpoint.

So this guy is essentially trying to collect proof of the checkpoint's function.

The lower officers didn't know what to do with him, but they also were smart enough not to take "the bait" of actually detaining him.

The commanding officer understood the purpose of the exercise and released him for that reason (actually the lower officers probably knew also -- one of them recognized him -- but didn't feel they had the authority to wave him on).

And actually, I think the DHS officers behaved very professionally (imagine if these were ordinary city cops -- some head-busting would have occured). But it isn't about the officers at all. It's about the legality of the checkpoint.

I admire this guy's bravery, and he's doing a service for all of us -- much like the ACLU, he's challenging what is an abrogation of our basic freedoms in the United States.

The important thing to understand is that it isn't about the DHS officers at all. Those guys are just doing their job.
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Re: Homeland Security: Obedience Training
Your points are well-taken, and I have a hard time disagreeing with most of them. My real issue with this really comes down to my 3rd sentence:

"This isn't civil disobedience, it's asinine."

So I went off the rails a bit after that, but people like this guy irritate me to no end. There are far, far better ways to put a dent into the DHS, to make people aware of what they're doing and put a stop to it. This video just reminds me of some jackass school kid deliberately provoking a teacher, knowing full well that the teacher can't do anything to him, and using that as an excuse to be an insolent prick in front of his friends.

You want to participate in some real civil disobedience that will actually accomplish something? Get arrested. Take the case to court, fight it, win and nag your representatives every step of the way.

Don't park your ass in an SUV with a video camera and a burning desire for high ratings on YouTube. One requires a commitment and action, while the latter just requires an attitude and a video camera.
By: decavolt
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Re: Homeland Security: Obedience Training
I don't think it's asinine. He filmed his experience on the cheap, and disseminated it to the entire world via the Internet. He's a mighty defender of the Fourth Amendment.
By: shitba
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Re: Homeland Security: Obedience Training
You seem to miss the first minute. There was an arrest, and the supreme court decided the issue already. They declared the stop illegal, and he legally did not have to answer the question. The DHS were BREAKING THE LAW, and he held their feet to the fire. Since when do we base right or wrong on whether we like a person or not? Just b/c he may not be someone you like doesn't mean he was wrong in any way for asserting his rights.

Your classroom example would be more analogous if the teacher was first touching the child in his "no no" place. And then the boy decided to provoke the teacher. Is the kid being a jerk? Perhaps, but the teacher shouldn't have been playing doctor in the first place. Why? Because the supreme court already decided that question!

The whole point of the video from start to finish is to show that we are being trained to be compliant to authority regardless of whether the authority is following the law. Go figure that you would have rather he was compliant...
By: Rou
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I agree with decavolt. What ever your view of the situation, these people are only human. You're only going to be able to poke a stick in their eye for so long before they bite you in the ass. I've seen a few videos like this one and have seen the remarkable restraint excersized.
By: ejayerik
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I agree, it's nice to see people who are breaking the law showing such remarkable restraint. If only more people followed their example...
By: Rou
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Beautiful

That's what i've been waiting to see. Most ppl 'fighting the power' that do this kinda thing are no where near as well informed or disciplined enough to play it as perfect as this guy.
By: deiviant
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Re: Homeland Security: Obedience Training
I'll have to watch it all later, when I'm not on lunch, but I'm surprised those are allowed. Here in Indiana, even drunk driving checkpoints are considered unconstitutional. Unreasonable search and seizure, something like that.
By: Funkbox
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Re: Homeland Security: Obedience Training
5*!!! BEAUTIFUL!!! Thank you for posting this...this is amazing stuff! That's your free America right there people! WAKE UP, SHEEP! You're losing everything and being conditioned to not question it and in fact, welcome it with open arms and a smile!!

Horray to this gentleman who filmed this and stood up to this kind of tyranny!!!

THIS IS NOT HOW IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE!! YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH THIS!!! (some of) YOU ARE AMERICANS! DON'T COMPLY!!!!!!!!!!! THEY DON'T OWN YOU!!

*deep breath* whew. I don't understand some of you who were questioning this guys actions and the way he handled himself. Those 'agents' knew the law and they knew they couldn't say they were detaining the guy.... this guy has some real balls... if just a third of Americans had this guys balls we wouldn't be sitting back watching our country slip into fascism with a remote in one hand and a bag of cheetos in the other.

I'm sick of it...
By: chawx
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Re: Homeland Security: Obedience Training
Interesting issue. Judging purely from this video, the man is simply being a jerk. He never answers the question of citizenship and instead of simply ignoring them and driving off and finding out what happens later he cuts them off in mid sentence simply repeating the same phrase "am i free to go?" When he asks them which law requires this, they attempt to give him information which he refuses. Judging by a few comments like "you can put this on youtube" they clearly know who he is and have had problems with him in the past and he continues to do this. Whats with the picture taking effect? That makes it seem like these guys are doing something wrong. Giving them a hard time doesn't solve anything and only pisses everyone off. If you went to work and people that you dealt with acted like this wouldnt you be pissed?

He also kept asking why he was being detained when clearly he wasn't being detained in any way. He could have stepped on the gas pedal at any time. The law he kept quoting about detaining people doesnt apply when you are sitting in your car at a stop sign. Thats not any type of detention. If anything HE was detaining everyone behind him.
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