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Ralph Nader Challenges Obama While Visiting Ub Law School
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Ralph Nader visits the University at Buffalo Law School.
Nov 26, 2008 7:29 AM
Re: Ralph Nader Challenges Obama While Visiting Ub Law School
Nader is light-years ahead of Obama.
Re: Ralph Nader Challenges Obama While Visiting Ub Law School
In many respcts, I agree with and admire Nader. At the risk of sounding as if I am right of center, here is one where I have a little difficulty.
I am of the position that it's not government's job to provide for the needy; only to see that they are given every opportunity to improve themselves and their standing. I far more look up to someone who has accomplishments of his own over a person born on third base and brought up to think that he hit a triple. Hence some of my issues with Dubya, Mr. Country First, etc.
As a consumer advocate, ombudsman or one to bring corporate travesties like the Covair (Unsafe at Any Speed), I place Nader on a pedestal. As a publicly elected official? He hasn't so much as been elected to a local school board. He has some great ideas about government but not a single one will ever come to fruition by being outside of it.
I am of the position that it's not government's job to provide for the needy; only to see that they are given every opportunity to improve themselves and their standing. I far more look up to someone who has accomplishments of his own over a person born on third base and brought up to think that he hit a triple. Hence some of my issues with Dubya, Mr. Country First, etc.
As a consumer advocate, ombudsman or one to bring corporate travesties like the Covair (Unsafe at Any Speed), I place Nader on a pedestal. As a publicly elected official? He hasn't so much as been elected to a local school board. He has some great ideas about government but not a single one will ever come to fruition by being outside of it.
By: spam_vigilante
Re: Ralph Nader Challenges Obama While Visiting Ub Law School
Interesting ideas and opinions. I agree with you mostly but must disagree with you on the issue of Nader not being suitable (this is me interpreting your words) for public office.
Why attach such importance to Nader not having been in public office before? The man is an archetype of integrity and the art of doing what is right. Nader has a soul and would never sell out. It's almost a matter of course that he hasn't got a record of operating within that most corrupt and evil entity Americans call their government.
We could talk and talk about what makes a "perfect" public official, and that's all interesting, but I would like to say upfront that someone's character is of the utmost importance. If someone is honest and strives for better living for everyone (like Nader), well, that is a minimum requirement. Characters such as Hillary Clinton should be dismissed forthwith. Same with Obama, but I seem to have reached terrain that, to some, represents holy ground, no matter Obama's record on FISA, the Patriot Act, foreign policy, the "bailout," his being best buddies with the Fed and Zionists, and you name it. So I'll end my little rant here.
Why attach such importance to Nader not having been in public office before? The man is an archetype of integrity and the art of doing what is right. Nader has a soul and would never sell out. It's almost a matter of course that he hasn't got a record of operating within that most corrupt and evil entity Americans call their government.
We could talk and talk about what makes a "perfect" public official, and that's all interesting, but I would like to say upfront that someone's character is of the utmost importance. If someone is honest and strives for better living for everyone (like Nader), well, that is a minimum requirement. Characters such as Hillary Clinton should be dismissed forthwith. Same with Obama, but I seem to have reached terrain that, to some, represents holy ground, no matter Obama's record on FISA, the Patriot Act, foreign policy, the "bailout," his being best buddies with the Fed and Zionists, and you name it. So I'll end my little rant here.
Re: Ralph Nader Challenges Obama While Visiting Ub Law School
For the record, I would offer that Spam is open to any criticism regarding Obama. :)
But on that note, I've also entered unwelcome territory simply by pointing out that Obama has jettisoned all of his supposed integrity in the few weeks after the election.
"Don't bring me down, maaaaan... Don't you get it? We won."
Sure. We won.
And Obama, "agent of change," has surrounded himself with Clintonians. That Clinton legacy we feared with Hillary? We got it anyway.
And Obama's rabid support for further financial "bailout" (aka: printing wheelbarrows of money circa Germany Weimar hyperinflation), his fealty to the Fed, his reversal on increasing tax on the very richest Americans, or his quiet dropping of pulling soldiers and US dollars out of Iraq have showed Obama to be a continuation of the current corporation administration.
Hence I don't feel like a "winner."
And even worse is that now we've replaced the village idiot with a man who cannot be questioned. In fact, this is a situation which some cynical folks might say explains exactly why the majority of corporate dollars backed the Obama horse in this year's race. He's only too happy to do their bidding. Yet to question him is to question your patriotism. 2009 America feels no different from 2008 America.
But no matter. This outrage will catch up to the rest of the US soon enough. Though I'm a little scared to see what will happen next.
But on that note, I've also entered unwelcome territory simply by pointing out that Obama has jettisoned all of his supposed integrity in the few weeks after the election.
"Don't bring me down, maaaaan... Don't you get it? We won."
Sure. We won.
And Obama, "agent of change," has surrounded himself with Clintonians. That Clinton legacy we feared with Hillary? We got it anyway.
And Obama's rabid support for further financial "bailout" (aka: printing wheelbarrows of money circa Germany Weimar hyperinflation), his fealty to the Fed, his reversal on increasing tax on the very richest Americans, or his quiet dropping of pulling soldiers and US dollars out of Iraq have showed Obama to be a continuation of the current corporation administration.
Hence I don't feel like a "winner."
And even worse is that now we've replaced the village idiot with a man who cannot be questioned. In fact, this is a situation which some cynical folks might say explains exactly why the majority of corporate dollars backed the Obama horse in this year's race. He's only too happy to do their bidding. Yet to question him is to question your patriotism. 2009 America feels no different from 2008 America.
But no matter. This outrage will catch up to the rest of the US soon enough. Though I'm a little scared to see what will happen next.
Re: Ralph Nader Challenges Obama While Visiting Ub Law School
Pray*, tell me: you surely are one of those who voted third party, eh?
*In case you have a sudden bout of dyslexia, it says pray, not prey. BIG difference.
By the way, McCain would have destroyed America. Obama probably only manages to reinforce people's (the ignorant masses) delusions, and actually make them happy to live in a fascist state. Better buy a wheelbarrow now.
*In case you have a sudden bout of dyslexia, it says pray, not prey. BIG difference.
By the way, McCain would have destroyed America. Obama probably only manages to reinforce people's (the ignorant masses) delusions, and actually make them happy to live in a fascist state. Better buy a wheelbarrow now.
Re: Ralph Nader Challenges Obama While Visiting Ub Law School
A little clarification here. I do not equate Nader's inexperience in public office as being naive. But I think that as smart of a man as he is, he would get eaten by the lurking barracudas. At least initially. Given some time in a lower office, he could actually be a great president and create a change from within.
As for Obama (a tangent in the above although having read elsewhere in this thread... on topic), I was fairly early onto his bandwagon, quickly observing his intellect. More importantly, I saw him as the least of multiple evils and certainly far more centrist than his opponents from the GOP ever painted him.
But the bottom line is, the two party system is a real issue. Perhaps Republicans will combine with Libertarians and reconstitute into two distinct parties and something similar manifest itself out of what is currently the Democratic Party. Such a fracturing might break the stranglehold that multinational corporations and foreign nationals have over on K Street (just one unelected issue out of many).
I'll end my little rant now as well. ;-)
As for Obama (a tangent in the above although having read elsewhere in this thread... on topic), I was fairly early onto his bandwagon, quickly observing his intellect. More importantly, I saw him as the least of multiple evils and certainly far more centrist than his opponents from the GOP ever painted him.
But the bottom line is, the two party system is a real issue. Perhaps Republicans will combine with Libertarians and reconstitute into two distinct parties and something similar manifest itself out of what is currently the Democratic Party. Such a fracturing might break the stranglehold that multinational corporations and foreign nationals have over on K Street (just one unelected issue out of many).
I'll end my little rant now as well. ;-)
By: spam_vigilante
Re: Ralph Nader Challenges Obama While Visiting Ub Law School
"I am of the position that it's not government's job to provide for the needy; only to see that they are given every opportunity to improve themselves and their standing."
Actually if you study political science, you learn that government is a way for weak people to band together and defend against bandits. It is intrinsically socialistic, otherwise you end up with an Autocracy.
How do you explain Roosevelt and his New Deal? Are you going to tell me that he was mistaken when he created social support for the unemployed? He did bring us out of the Depression.
Government works best when it is socialist. It is the job of government to improve the life of the nations citizens, not to line the pockets of the nations industries.
Actually if you study political science, you learn that government is a way for weak people to band together and defend against bandits. It is intrinsically socialistic, otherwise you end up with an Autocracy.
How do you explain Roosevelt and his New Deal? Are you going to tell me that he was mistaken when he created social support for the unemployed? He did bring us out of the Depression.
Government works best when it is socialist. It is the job of government to improve the life of the nations citizens, not to line the pockets of the nations industries.
By: smego
Re: Ralph Nader Challenges Obama While Visiting Ub Law School
Your right, he is light years ahead of Obama. But the US needs someone who has there feet on the ground right now, someone who is not in some fantasy world where only poverty is an issue. What do you think US voters cared about most this last election? War. Not poverty.
Obama is a man of the times, not some visionary zealot.
Obama is a man of the times, not some visionary zealot.
By: smego
Re: Ralph Nader Challenges Obama While Visiting Ub Law School
The Corvair was a good car, way ahead of it's time. And it was the first U.S. made car to have seat belts as standard equipment, was very fuel efficient (for its time), handled great (like a Porsche), and was inexpensive to both manufacture and maintain. Nader's a jerk.
President Ralph? Not!
President Ralph? Not!
By: wfglaser
Re: Ralph Nader Challenges Obama While Visiting Ub Law School
The Corvair was a death trap with wheels. Even the VW Bug (and later Beetle) performed better in crash tests. It had nothing to do with the rear motor mount (the lack of heavy iron in front). It was a poorly designed car in response to what GM had rightfully perceived as a threat of imports. It was a rush-to-market job worthy of the criticism that it got.
By: spam_vigilante
Re: Ralph Nader Challenges Obama While Visiting Ub Law School
I drove Corvairs. Had two, a matter of fact, a '64 and a '66. Also several VW Beetles (Bug and Beetle are the same - you must mean Super Beetle) over the years. Unless you've had first hand experience with Corvairs, it's probably not best to just regurgitate what meglomaniac Ralph "I just like to see myself on TV" Nader has to say.
By: wfglaser
Re: Ralph Nader Challenges Obama While Visiting Ub Law School
He was making statements on their performance during crash tests. Sure, you owned two Corvairs. How many did you crash?
By: Faffy
Re: Ralph Nader Challenges Obama While Visiting Ub Law School
BTW: What's the difference between Ralph Nader calling Obama "Uncle Tom" and Ayman al-Zawahri calling him a "house ni66er"?
Or better yet, what's similar?
Or better yet, what's similar?
By: wfglaser
Re: Ralph Nader Challenges Obama While Visiting Ub Law School
There may not be a difference. They refer to similar ideas, and neither of them are very inaccurate. Yes, they are ugly terms, but Obama is not who we thought he was, and the reality is even uglier. Nader just decided to use the literary terminology, while Zawhahri used to the blatantly racist vernacular of yester-century. One difference is that a racist overtone was not Nader's intent, while Zawahri was deliberately racist in addition to describing Obama. House nigger implies that one, the black person in question is in league with the man, or whitey, and that the black person is in a position of subservient inferiority. Uncle Tom just doesn't carry the quite the same sting as house nigger. Being that you're just quoting the word "nigger," you shouldn't be afraid to say it. Some other asshole voluntarily used it.
By: boyblunders
Re: Ralph Nader Challenges Obama While Visiting Ub Law School
To echo boyblunders, the difference between Nader and Zawahri - at least on this topic - is intent, intent, intent.
Zawahri deliberately intended a racist tone meant to denigrate (relax, look it up... :) Obama. Nader used a highly-charged term simply to challenge Obama to not sink to that level of subservience to corporate powers.
But we in the US have been so conditioned to portray the mere utterance of basic words as offensive without investigating the corresponding speaker's intent that it's no wonder both the media and Americans portray both situations as equally unacceptable. But if only we apply a little critical thinkin'...
And for the record, I'd prefer Obama not be an Uncle Tom. But his immediate, pre-planned choice to surround himself with pro-Corporate, pro-NAFTA Clintonians presents him as such.
Zawahri deliberately intended a racist tone meant to denigrate (relax, look it up... :) Obama. Nader used a highly-charged term simply to challenge Obama to not sink to that level of subservience to corporate powers.
But we in the US have been so conditioned to portray the mere utterance of basic words as offensive without investigating the corresponding speaker's intent that it's no wonder both the media and Americans portray both situations as equally unacceptable. But if only we apply a little critical thinkin'...
And for the record, I'd prefer Obama not be an Uncle Tom. But his immediate, pre-planned choice to surround himself with pro-Corporate, pro-NAFTA Clintonians presents him as such.
Re: Ralph Nader Challenges Obama While Visiting Ub Law School
Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me.
Actions speak louder than words.
Aren't these the two old sayings that Nader is trying to put across with Obama ? I know it's not as "wordy" as the rest of the statements being put forth by fellow milkandcookiens, but kinda think this is a simple way of summing this up for my simple mind.
Actions speak louder than words.
Aren't these the two old sayings that Nader is trying to put across with Obama ? I know it's not as "wordy" as the rest of the statements being put forth by fellow milkandcookiens, but kinda think this is a simple way of summing this up for my simple mind.
By: D3NIS
