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Evolution is Not a Ladder
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Matt Dillahunty and Tracie Harris discuss why it's incorrect to view evolution as a ladder.
http://wiki.cotch.net/index.php/Evolutionary_ladder
Credit:
Atheist Experience http://www.atheist-experience.com
08/17/2008 #566
http://wiki.cotch.net/index.php/Evolutionary_ladder
Credit:
Atheist Experience http://www.atheist-experience.com
08/17/2008 #566
Aug 22, 2008 9:44 PM
Re: Evolution is Not a Ladder
These people are too bloody patient. I'd have cut him off once it was clear he did not have question. The caller was obviously an imbecile (and I don't say this just 'cuz he's God fearing).
By: EViLMinD
Re: Evolution is Not a Ladder
At the end, the caller was cut off with a great zinger, "I'm not about to continue talking with a four second delay and forty years into the past". That's what I call a slap with a white glove, elegant and no profanity in sight. Probably way over the caller's head and therefore much more devastating.
Now, about the caller - I can't think of anything more boring than ignorance, especially willful ignorance, in this case calling to make a non-point, then refusing to listen to the answer that's being repeated to him over and over again at point blank range. The Kansas board of education must be very proud indeed.
Several years ago I had a discussion with some Kansas businessmen about the Iraq invasion, and when I told them that Cheney's company (Haliburton) got a no-bid contract to build a half-billion dollar prison facility in Guantanamo, they shrugged it off with the comment "To the victor comes the spoils. Next!". And that's your Bible Belt for you, what Colbert called the backwash, I believe.
How's this for science, technology and engineering in Kansas - during an ice storm about two years ago, power went out in many parts of the state. The makers of Flat Fixer tire foam turned on the diesel generators to power the factory, but didn't think to turn on the heaters, so the assembly line was operating at 30 degrees below zero. At that temperature, the glue that holds the can together does not fully bond, and so each weakened can from that batch became a time bomb.
Imagine my horror when I opened the trunk of my car and found an empty Flat Fixer can, the top blown off and crystallized white gunk all over and covering my DVD player, which was in the trunk at the time. Thank you Kansas, for your faith based atmosphere and brilliant results.
Now, about the caller - I can't think of anything more boring than ignorance, especially willful ignorance, in this case calling to make a non-point, then refusing to listen to the answer that's being repeated to him over and over again at point blank range. The Kansas board of education must be very proud indeed.
Several years ago I had a discussion with some Kansas businessmen about the Iraq invasion, and when I told them that Cheney's company (Haliburton) got a no-bid contract to build a half-billion dollar prison facility in Guantanamo, they shrugged it off with the comment "To the victor comes the spoils. Next!". And that's your Bible Belt for you, what Colbert called the backwash, I believe.
How's this for science, technology and engineering in Kansas - during an ice storm about two years ago, power went out in many parts of the state. The makers of Flat Fixer tire foam turned on the diesel generators to power the factory, but didn't think to turn on the heaters, so the assembly line was operating at 30 degrees below zero. At that temperature, the glue that holds the can together does not fully bond, and so each weakened can from that batch became a time bomb.
Imagine my horror when I opened the trunk of my car and found an empty Flat Fixer can, the top blown off and crystallized white gunk all over and covering my DVD player, which was in the trunk at the time. Thank you Kansas, for your faith based atmosphere and brilliant results.
Re: Evolution is Not a Ladder
This is actually the most pissed I've seen this guy. I wouldn't be able to do this guy's job. I'd lose it WAY before I got to try to explain anything.
By: luclonde
Re: Evolution is Not a Ladder
I second that, that guy usuaky amazes me, but if he had to deal with repeat callers then I understand.
By: cheezsteak
Re: Evolution is Not a Ladder
I think the panel's explanations are ridiculous and appear to be made up as they go along. Their beliefs are akin to paganism. Reuben has a perfectly valid point.
By: Turkwise
Re: Evolution is Not a Ladder
"...akin to paganism"
Wtf are you talking about? Are you high, or just an idiot?
"Reuben has a perfectly valid point."
Which is...?
Wtf are you talking about? Are you high, or just an idiot?
"Reuben has a perfectly valid point."
Which is...?
By: EViLMinD
Re: Evolution is Not a Ladder
Reuben's valid point is this:
Matt Dillahunty says that humans derive from Chimps and that the significant differences in technological capabilities have arisen because natural selection has weeded out the weak through mutation. But where is the evidence of what natural selection has actually weeded out? Even if the weak no longer exists surely there should be traces of the in-between models of improvement between chimp and man. Or are we saying that mutation instantly perfects improvement? i.e. a Chimp was instantly perfected into a man. In which case why do ascribe billions of years to the process of evolution? (Is it just a convenient way of allowing for the variety of species that is present in nature?) In fact if evolution has indeed weeded out the weakness in everything that came between Chimp and man, why has it not weeded out the Chimp, which we percieve as genetically inferior to man. If you follow logic, there is a massive inconsistency here.
This cannot be brushed off with just giggling as the panel does and cutting the caller of in a moment of frustration and arrogance.
As for your hyperbolic reaction to my claim that their beliefs are akin to paganism I'll deal with that later
Matt Dillahunty says that humans derive from Chimps and that the significant differences in technological capabilities have arisen because natural selection has weeded out the weak through mutation. But where is the evidence of what natural selection has actually weeded out? Even if the weak no longer exists surely there should be traces of the in-between models of improvement between chimp and man. Or are we saying that mutation instantly perfects improvement? i.e. a Chimp was instantly perfected into a man. In which case why do ascribe billions of years to the process of evolution? (Is it just a convenient way of allowing for the variety of species that is present in nature?) In fact if evolution has indeed weeded out the weakness in everything that came between Chimp and man, why has it not weeded out the Chimp, which we percieve as genetically inferior to man. If you follow logic, there is a massive inconsistency here.
This cannot be brushed off with just giggling as the panel does and cutting the caller of in a moment of frustration and arrogance.
As for your hyperbolic reaction to my claim that their beliefs are akin to paganism I'll deal with that later
By: Turkwise
Re: Evolution is Not a Ladder
I don't really know what to tell you. Your argument is unclear and you play fast and loose with your terms. Your argument shows that you lack a basic knowledge of evolution, and so I'm not really sure how to go about debating you, but I'll do my best. The only thing that is clear is this: You haven't done any of your own research, or you are willfully ignoring it.
Your argument seems to turn on two things, the first being that if evolution is true, there should be some record of the species "in between" man and chimp. This is an absurd demand, because you could simply extend that and demand evidence of the species in between man and the species-in-between-man-and-chimp, ad nauseum. However, I'll play ball. I spent five minutes and found information on the Sahelanthropus tchadensis. Look it up and be satisfied.
Your second point is that if man evolved from chimp, then chimp should no longer exist. This is simply a misinterpretation of evolution, which certainly does not call for the mass extinction of the original species every time another species branches off. Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution#Speciation
I think that if everyone actually understood evolution, they'd find it much less threatening to their personal beliefs.
Your argument seems to turn on two things, the first being that if evolution is true, there should be some record of the species "in between" man and chimp. This is an absurd demand, because you could simply extend that and demand evidence of the species in between man and the species-in-between-man-and-chimp, ad nauseum. However, I'll play ball. I spent five minutes and found information on the Sahelanthropus tchadensis. Look it up and be satisfied.
Your second point is that if man evolved from chimp, then chimp should no longer exist. This is simply a misinterpretation of evolution, which certainly does not call for the mass extinction of the original species every time another species branches off. Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution#Speciation
I think that if everyone actually understood evolution, they'd find it much less threatening to their personal beliefs.
By: i8ursandwich
