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Creationist Quote Mine Collapse
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Creationist quote mine collapse.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quote_mining
Credit:
Atheist Experience
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quote_mining
Credit:
Atheist Experience
Aug 3, 2008 11:59 PM
Re: Creationist Quote Mine Collapse
One monkeywrench I would throw in with what he said at the very end, and I'm not sure he would disagree with me. There are people I know who believe Jesus is the son of god who still believe the Bible is a flawed book, written by people with motives who were the best story tellers, who don't take it whole cloth. They don't believe you can take it as a transcript of what happened and of what Jesus, the prophets, angels, or God said.
Re: Creationist Quote Mine Collapse
I enjoyed this discussion however I do disagree on the point of Authority. Science does rely on authority. Once of the hosts even mentioned that scientific journals have a criteria to be published. Now while this does vary from publisher to publisher there are general guidelines which establish who can be published and who cannot. Authority in the scientific community is bestowed via study both in university and independently. Greater authority is then ascribed as the community chooses to accept or reject the work of the scholar. In some cases the work is embraced by the larger community as a whole as is the case of Darwins work in other cases it is rejected by the majority of the community(see hollow earth theory). This democratic giving of authority to a work is what gives science it relevance. It is true that not all scientist accept the same levels of authority however there are works in the scientific community that are authoritarian and just as the religiously devout may call a leaders words authoritarian many scientist consider the words of Steven Hawking, Albert Einstien, and others to be authoritarian in the realms of physics. However this does not mean that these scientist consider all words spoken by Einstien to be canonical but they do accept that when speaking in the realm of his authority that his words and thoughts hold greater weight than that of a laymen to science.
So in summation of the thought Authority does exist in Science it is produced by democratically giving it to those whose works suitably impress the scientific community.
However isn't this how all authority is given to ideas and the men behind them. Indeed authority rests with the masses even though at time they choose not to recognize that.
So in summation of the thought Authority does exist in Science it is produced by democratically giving it to those whose works suitably impress the scientific community.
However isn't this how all authority is given to ideas and the men behind them. Indeed authority rests with the masses even though at time they choose not to recognize that.
By: ikonick
Re: Creationist Quote Mine Collapse
One thing I would add to that is that works are deemed acceptable by a community of scholars (peer-review) based on that works' commitment to the scientific method. You wrote a whole paragraph on the process of democratically accepting scientific work without so much as a hint of the criteria by which works are judged acceptable. That is the critical success of science - an ability to demonstrate that all other things being equal, assertion x is what the evidence seems to indicate.
By: Overmann
Re: Creationist Quote Mine Collapse
Adding to what Overmann said, the "authority" he was talking about was people giving extra credence to people of high stature.
Peer review is necessary for EVERY scientific paper. While we can't guarantee that the reviewers are going to be 100% unbiased ("who wrote this? I went to college with him, he's an ass") it is a system that allows for the greatest fairness for a screening process possible.
Peer review is necessary for EVERY scientific paper. While we can't guarantee that the reviewers are going to be 100% unbiased ("who wrote this? I went to college with him, he's an ass") it is a system that allows for the greatest fairness for a screening process possible.
By: Faffy
Re: Creationist Quote Mine Collapse
They're talking about the logical fallacy called "appeal to authority", which is the corollary to the "ad hominem attack". Saying the theory of evolution is bunk because Charles Darwin had an ugly beard is an ad hominem attack. Saying the theory of evolution must be correct because Charles Darwin was a really smart guy is an appeal to authority.
Asserting infallibility or character flaws of any person instead of rationally discussing ideas on their merits just doesn't flush with these guys. Ditto, quote mining.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_authority
Asserting infallibility or character flaws of any person instead of rationally discussing ideas on their merits just doesn't flush with these guys. Ditto, quote mining.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_authority
Re: Creationist Quote Mine Collapse
scientific authority is based on peer review which itself is based on there being a clearly set out empirical and objective method from which the conclusions emerge; that is to say, a method that can be repeated by anyone in order to evaluate the claims for themselves.
that is to say, scientific authority, unlike other forms of authority, is not based on reputation or rhetoric, but, when done properly, is based on how the world actually works, with all such prejudice and woolly thinking removed.
that is to say, scientific authority, unlike other forms of authority, is not based on reputation or rhetoric, but, when done properly, is based on how the world actually works, with all such prejudice and woolly thinking removed.
By: squidboot
