Menu Bar
Needs Plugin: Flash | Not Working?
Listen to the Scientists: Evolution vs Creationism
<< Listen to the Scientists: Evolution vs Creationism
|
Back in Black: Human Evolution and Stupidity >>
Eight Evolutionary scientists analyze the current controversy between Evolution and Creationism, or all anti-Evolution forces, including Intelligent Design.
Jul 20, 2007 10:44 PM
Re: Listen to the Scientists: Evolution vs Creationism
Great ... the public is concerned with evolution vs. creationism, but getting top scientists into the debate is like getting the fbi to bust up a kegger. Then again, getting someone who has thought long and hard about the nature of faith -- I won't say religion -- to speak about the illusions of modern science would be a similar situation. Of course, the media is very concerned with having some sort of head-to-head confrontation, and people like Richard Dawkins are very concerned with the most superficial of all human charasteristics, the 'belief' -- and THAT seems to be the biggest lie of all. That is, that politics would be so shallow.
By: q335r49
Re: Listen to the Scientists: Evolution vs Creationism
How do other religions feel about creationism, intelligent design, and evolution ?
By: D3NIS
Re: Listen to the Scientists: Evolution vs Creationism
What other religions? The religions other than scientists?
That's the whole point here, the only thing that should be taught in public schools should be tested by the scientific community, like one of those in the video said. Religion has absolutely no part in it unless their theories also stand up to the scrutiny of the scientific community.
That's the whole point here, the only thing that should be taught in public schools should be tested by the scientific community, like one of those in the video said. Religion has absolutely no part in it unless their theories also stand up to the scrutiny of the scientific community.
By: tjbassoon
Re: Listen to the Scientists: Evolution vs Creationism
There's a fringe religion (some consider it a cult, I don't want to hazard a guess as to what it is) called the Raelian Movement, which claims that humans are genetically modified clones of aliens, and they believe that humans should seek out immortal life through cloning themselves (I think, Google it yourself).
That's their take on intelligent design, and you rarely hear anyone attribute deliberate creation to beings that aren't omnipotent/innately immortal, so it is kind of refreshingly different. They call for schools to teach intelligent design, too. However, the Creationists we are used to don't seem to want to picket alongside them. Maybe we need three science classes?
That's their take on intelligent design, and you rarely hear anyone attribute deliberate creation to beings that aren't omnipotent/innately immortal, so it is kind of refreshingly different. They call for schools to teach intelligent design, too. However, the Creationists we are used to don't seem to want to picket alongside them. Maybe we need three science classes?
By: tvthefleshtone
Re: Listen to the Scientists: Evolution vs Creationism
the question being asked is: seeing how creationism is strictly a christian movement, what do the other religions think about it?
I have heard of an islamic version of kent hovind. i kept looking for him again on youtube but couldn't find it.
i do remember it being better funded videos than Hovinds.
I have heard of an islamic version of kent hovind. i kept looking for him again on youtube but couldn't find it.
i do remember it being better funded videos than Hovinds.
By: cheezsteak
Re: Listen to the Scientists: Evolution vs Creationism
It makes my life so much more fulfilled knowing where I came from,
NOT.
It's funny how people argue over stuff like this LOL.
NOT.
It's funny how people argue over stuff like this LOL.
By: Comzee
Re: Listen to the Scientists: Evolution vs Creationism
I'd just like to be the first to say, not only is creationism unprovable, its stupid.
By: faxis2k
Re: Listen to the Scientists: Evolution vs Creationism
This entire debate tends to be very narrow from two different sides. Creationists are pretending to be certain apart from science, and Evolutionists are pretending to certain beyond their own limited knowledge.
The Creationists attempts to reconcile science with Scripture and theology. Bad diea. While the Evolutionist ignores everything about man that is non-cognitive. Bad idea.
God cannot be proven by sceintific method, period. Creationist need to stop trying to hijack science. However, Evolutionists are trying to hijack all things "not known".
Science tends to pat itself on it's pack for the things it has discovered. Yet, there still remains many things to be discovered, things that already exist; things that are already true. It's just that we have not yet discovered them.
It is quite possible that in the great expanse of the universe there may be scientfic discoveries that may imply more vividly the possibility of a Prime Mover; an Uncaused Cause. At that point, it may seem more reasonable to believe that. However, it still will not "prove it".
In my own opinion, it is still at least philosophically reasonable to believe in God.
The Creationists attempts to reconcile science with Scripture and theology. Bad diea. While the Evolutionist ignores everything about man that is non-cognitive. Bad idea.
God cannot be proven by sceintific method, period. Creationist need to stop trying to hijack science. However, Evolutionists are trying to hijack all things "not known".
Science tends to pat itself on it's pack for the things it has discovered. Yet, there still remains many things to be discovered, things that already exist; things that are already true. It's just that we have not yet discovered them.
It is quite possible that in the great expanse of the universe there may be scientfic discoveries that may imply more vividly the possibility of a Prime Mover; an Uncaused Cause. At that point, it may seem more reasonable to believe that. However, it still will not "prove it".
In my own opinion, it is still at least philosophically reasonable to believe in God.
By: garrettis
Re: Listen to the Scientists: Evolution vs Creationism
BTW, this video implies that all scientists who excel in their field do not believe in some sort of God. That simply is not true.
The truth of the matter is, that many sceintists that happen to be Theists are scared of being abused and bullied by those in the scientific community who disagree with them.
However, I do agree with the statements made about public education and how mid-America tends to dumb themselves down a bit. It's important for people to be educated. However, I think that it is equally important that people be allowed to "believe" without being called idiots.
The truth of the matter is, that many sceintists that happen to be Theists are scared of being abused and bullied by those in the scientific community who disagree with them.
However, I do agree with the statements made about public education and how mid-America tends to dumb themselves down a bit. It's important for people to be educated. However, I think that it is equally important that people be allowed to "believe" without being called idiots.
By: garrettis
Re: Listen to the Scientists: Evolution vs Creationism
I think this video doesn't imply that all scientists are atheists, just that scientists don't think that strict creationism (or ID, whatever) should be taught in schools because it has no scientific merit. A scientist can hold this viewpoint and still believe in God (or god, gods, Allah, Zeus, etc.) but they also realize that ID is fundamentally a Christian viewpoint with no scientific hold, and therefore out of bounds in the public school system.
By: tjbassoon
Re: Listen to the Scientists: Evolution vs Creationism
40% of all scientists are athiests or agnostic. The NAS (with the most elite scientists) has an athiest rate of 72%. Highly logical people tend to have trouble believing in organized religion because there are many cases of contradictions and circular reasoning. Plus, the scientific basis that modern evangelicals try to build themselves upon quickly falls apart in front of a person with a science background.
Of course, a scientist can still be a theist, and I believe they have every right to believe what they want to believe. Of course, science is based upon objective truth. Creationism has no place in a classroom, as it fails to make predictions (not like the rapture, more like what kind of fossils we should expect to find, or what a generation bacteria exposed to antibiotics will mutate into) or provide sufficient testable hypothesis. Thus, it is philosophy, and biased philosophy at that. It's one viewpoint out of at least hundreds of creation myths, making the idea of teaching "every viewpoint" or "the controversy" seem silly and complex.
Of course, a scientist can still be a theist, and I believe they have every right to believe what they want to believe. Of course, science is based upon objective truth. Creationism has no place in a classroom, as it fails to make predictions (not like the rapture, more like what kind of fossils we should expect to find, or what a generation bacteria exposed to antibiotics will mutate into) or provide sufficient testable hypothesis. Thus, it is philosophy, and biased philosophy at that. It's one viewpoint out of at least hundreds of creation myths, making the idea of teaching "every viewpoint" or "the controversy" seem silly and complex.
By: tvthefleshtone
Re: Listen to the Scientists: Evolution vs Creationism
So there's really a debate?
I think the main problem is giving creationism too much attention. It's not that science knows everything, any good scientist knows there are always exceptions to everything we know and that science is subject to change when proven wrong. That's why we choose to accept it, because it works.
In my opinion the biggest problem is the advertising creationism gets, those things that work are enough to say, for starters, that the bible's chronicles aren't literal. IF they are philosophical/metaphoric that is different but a thought nonetheless.
Bottom line: you don't "believe" in science. Science is a collection of facts that are explained by us in such a manner that we can predict future situations. We should get those scientists off these shows and into something meaningful, instead of trying to convince people that they've been deceived.
I think the main problem is giving creationism too much attention. It's not that science knows everything, any good scientist knows there are always exceptions to everything we know and that science is subject to change when proven wrong. That's why we choose to accept it, because it works.
In my opinion the biggest problem is the advertising creationism gets, those things that work are enough to say, for starters, that the bible's chronicles aren't literal. IF they are philosophical/metaphoric that is different but a thought nonetheless.
Bottom line: you don't "believe" in science. Science is a collection of facts that are explained by us in such a manner that we can predict future situations. We should get those scientists off these shows and into something meaningful, instead of trying to convince people that they've been deceived.
By: nairda_leo
Re: Listen to the Scientists: Evolution vs Creationism
The biggest problem with creationism is that if it were actual, useful science, major scientists would have picked it up. It is true that many scientific revolutionaries were doubted at first, but that really isn't a credential. Anyone can make stuff up or be mistaken about something. The problem is that they must prove themselves first before it becomes a theory rather than a hypothesis. Plus, creationism has been fighting for acceptance pretty much since the creation of the human race, and it was winning right up until the theory of evolution, which provided a bunch of useful predictions and post-dictions. Without evolution, penicillin resistant illnesses would be seen as "God's wrath" rather than organisms that changed to avoid an environmental threat.
By: tvthefleshtone
Re: Listen to the Scientists: Evolution vs Creationism
Oh yeah, and if there were no accepted answer (i.e., real controversy at all levels), it would not be taught in public schools. I've learned nothing of string theory in physics, even though it is an interesting element that could contribute to our understanding of quantum physics (which we do learn about).
By: tvthefleshtone
Re: Listen to the Scientists: Evolution vs Creationism
The problem with Creationism isn't that its wrong, its just impossible to know. I couldn't tell you that Creationism isn't true, but what I can tell you is that nobody on the entire planet can PROVE it is true, and therefore it will never compete with Evolution. Evolution, though a theory, has a lot of evidence to back it up. Creationism has none, and before someone says Bible, saying its true doesn't make it so.
By: faxis2k


