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Carl Sagan: Four Billion Years of Evolution
The late Dr Carl Sagan speaks about four billion years of evolution.
Jun 13, 2007 3:46 PM
Re: Carl Sagan - speaks about 4 billion years
Its always refreshing to hear actual scientists talk about science in such absolute terms these days.
By: bryan
Re: Carl Sagan - speaks about 4 billion years
Who are you kidding? Some mythical omnipotent being with spooky language made this planet of living beings in only six days. Four billion years? Nonsense. Only 60 centuries.
By: spam_vigilante
Re: Carl Sagan - speaks about 4 billion years
"..these days"
What's sad is that this is the <i>late</i>Carl Sagan. Richard Dawkins is about the only public figure I know to carry the torch <b>these days</b>.. and he's not even that prominent in the mainstream. Nobody's revolutionized the public understanding of science like Dr. Sagan's Cosmos series since then. David Attenborough had done a bang up job with things like Planet Earth though..
BTW, Carl Sagan's widow and co-author of several of his books, Ann Druyan, is worth a google or three. NORML, anyone?
What's sad is that this is the <i>late</i>Carl Sagan. Richard Dawkins is about the only public figure I know to carry the torch <b>these days</b>.. and he's not even that prominent in the mainstream. Nobody's revolutionized the public understanding of science like Dr. Sagan's Cosmos series since then. David Attenborough had done a bang up job with things like Planet Earth though..
BTW, Carl Sagan's widow and co-author of several of his books, Ann Druyan, is worth a google or three. NORML, anyone?
By: hypersloth
Re: Carl Sagan - speaks about 4 billion years
we have some stuff in the works for better text markup. stay tuned.
By: bryan
Re: Carl Sagan: Four Billion Years of Evolution
Mk, well if humans evolved to Monkeys then why are Monkeys still around??? Evolved its to undergo change and well are you or HIM for that matter to tell me that a vast majority-... okay well a huge majority for apes evolved and then uhhh...like others did not?
The cook
The cook
By: cookmonster
Re: Carl Sagan: Four Billion Years of Evolution
Neither Evolution nor Creationism can explain Tang.
By: jaxon
Re: Carl Sagan: Four Billion Years of Evolution
Asking that question is like asking, "I dropped one egg on the floor. Why aren't the other 11 broken?" One thing changing causes no mandatory change to anything else.
Let's say a cat is born with three eyes by some genetic mutation and lives and reproduces. Do all the other cats automatically die or grow a third eye? Of course not, that's ludicrous. If an offspring is born with a new trait (and the trait is significant enough to warrant a decision that it's different enough from those that bore it), that's effectively a new species.
Nice try, though, cook. Next?
Let's say a cat is born with three eyes by some genetic mutation and lives and reproduces. Do all the other cats automatically die or grow a third eye? Of course not, that's ludicrous. If an offspring is born with a new trait (and the trait is significant enough to warrant a decision that it's different enough from those that bore it), that's effectively a new species.
Nice try, though, cook. Next?
By: scuazmooq
Re: Carl Sagan: Four Billion Years of Evolution
This is the kind of elitism and snobbery that creationists rise above.
You are answering your guesses with guesses from supposedly brilliant minds like Carl Sagen. And no doubt he is brilliant. However, he is baseing his theory on the guess of the guy before...and he based his on an even earlier guy.
We cannot recreate macro evolution in a lab...so therefore our scientists SHOULD NOT make absolute statements about our origins. I'm not saying they HAVE to be creationists...but why are they so closed minded to reality and how things MIGHT have been. Things like the Carl Sagen piece above make it seem like scientists have got it all figured out. But they really don't know anything, this is just the best guess so far...So why are we closing the books as if this IS it??
You are answering your guesses with guesses from supposedly brilliant minds like Carl Sagen. And no doubt he is brilliant. However, he is baseing his theory on the guess of the guy before...and he based his on an even earlier guy.
We cannot recreate macro evolution in a lab...so therefore our scientists SHOULD NOT make absolute statements about our origins. I'm not saying they HAVE to be creationists...but why are they so closed minded to reality and how things MIGHT have been. Things like the Carl Sagen piece above make it seem like scientists have got it all figured out. But they really don't know anything, this is just the best guess so far...So why are we closing the books as if this IS it??
By: aaroncoal
Re: Carl Sagan: Four Billion Years of Evolution
So explain where creationists get their theories. These "guesses" are the results of years of research and testing, and not just pure speculation. You people constantly prove your ignorance of the world by sticking to the same IGNORANT beliefs.While at the same time the natural world have given us plenty of evidence to support our theories and an environment in which we can recreate our results. Forgive us for not being part of a "flock" and choosing to explore and learn. Twit.
By: EricTheWise
Re: Carl Sagan: Four Billion Years of Evolution
See ya had to call me a Twit. What is it that made you have to do that? If you really believed your theory then the argument would stand on it's own. It doesn't. The doubt scares you...therefore I am the enemy. And if your theory really is true then who cares if I'm wrong.. we all die the same death on this joke of an accidental existance. Mother Teresa would officially be no better of worse than Hitler...Nothing would matter...nothing.
By: aaroncoal
Re: Carl Sagan: Four Billion Years of Evolution
Ok I read this argument and had to say something. I feel that both of you are right on two different points.
1. Eric is right, in that, while these began as guesses (everything does) they have been proven true constantly. That is the basic of science, someone makes a guess and everyone (including himself) tries to prove him wrong. Holes in every theory have been found even Newton's. But that doesn't mean that the whole theory is wrong.
2. Aaron is right that eric was out of line calling him a twit. I like this site because everyone listens, and is not afraid to say what they think, because they know they won't be spammed. Aaron also has a point in that he should not be scared of doubt. Doubt is what proves science. In short Aaroncoal is more polite and has better debate skillz.
1. Eric is right, in that, while these began as guesses (everything does) they have been proven true constantly. That is the basic of science, someone makes a guess and everyone (including himself) tries to prove him wrong. Holes in every theory have been found even Newton's. But that doesn't mean that the whole theory is wrong.
2. Aaron is right that eric was out of line calling him a twit. I like this site because everyone listens, and is not afraid to say what they think, because they know they won't be spammed. Aaron also has a point in that he should not be scared of doubt. Doubt is what proves science. In short Aaroncoal is more polite and has better debate skillz.
By: cheezsteak
Re: Carl Sagan: Four Billion Years of Evolution
It's cool. I don't mind being called a twit. Here in America I'm not even sure what a twit is. Maybe it means I'm brilliant.
I know one thing...there is no free lunch. That rule goes to scientists as well as us twits.
I know one thing...there is no free lunch. That rule goes to scientists as well as us twits.
By: aaroncoal
Re: Carl Sagan: Four Billion Years of Evolution
Just a 'theory' here, but I think he called you a twit based off of nothing more than his observations of your twit-ishness.
By: MisterJingo
Re: Carl Sagan: Four Billion Years of Evolution
"If you really believed your theory then the argument would stand on it's own. It doesn't. The doubt scares you...therefore I am the enemy. And if your theory really is true then who cares if I'm wrong.. we all die the same death on this joke of an accidental existance. Mother Teresa would officially be no better of worse than Hitler...Nothing would matter...nothing."
Your statement about doubt is religious propaganda. Atheists don't doubt the theory of evolution in it's entirety, but they do test it and modify it to physical evidence. Atheists are not scared of the afterlife. I am not scared of hell because all the evidence I see indicates that it doesn't exist. Even if hell did exist, I think punishment in hell is so arbitrary that if you were to end up there it wouldn't for lack of piety. It would just be bad luck.
You are not my ‘enemy,’ although I might consider you to be the ‘opposition.’ And there are things that do matter subjectively. My family matters and my life matters to me. I do think that NOW matters because we live in the NOW, and we will never live in a fantasy paradise with pearly gates. Also, Mother Teresa was better than Hitler because she made the world a better place for you and me.
Your statement about doubt is religious propaganda. Atheists don't doubt the theory of evolution in it's entirety, but they do test it and modify it to physical evidence. Atheists are not scared of the afterlife. I am not scared of hell because all the evidence I see indicates that it doesn't exist. Even if hell did exist, I think punishment in hell is so arbitrary that if you were to end up there it wouldn't for lack of piety. It would just be bad luck.
You are not my ‘enemy,’ although I might consider you to be the ‘opposition.’ And there are things that do matter subjectively. My family matters and my life matters to me. I do think that NOW matters because we live in the NOW, and we will never live in a fantasy paradise with pearly gates. Also, Mother Teresa was better than Hitler because she made the world a better place for you and me.
By: Hummm
Re: Carl Sagan: Four Billion Years of Evolution
Damn it scuaz, bring it down a notch. Think of your target audience. Science dosent make sense to them. You have to put a "praise jesus" in your retort every now and then. Try capitalizing HIM so EVERYONE knows WHO your TALKING about. lolkidding.
Using the egg model just confuses them. Try to use smaller words too, they are (clearly) not interested in looking things up.
Using the egg model just confuses them. Try to use smaller words too, they are (clearly) not interested in looking things up.
By: meat
Re: Carl Sagan: Four Billion Years of Evolution
Humans didn't descend directly from the apes or monkey's you see today. Apes, monkey's and humans all had a common ancestor, which IS NOT around today. Also, monkeys and apes did evolve, but in different directions than humans. Evolution can mean adaptations other than intelligence, like more powerful
arms and legs for climbing trees.
arms and legs for climbing trees.
By: Crabjuice
Re: Carl Sagan: Four Billion Years of Evolution
Mmkay. big long sigh for cookmonster. You arent listening, are you cookmonster. Human family tree branched off FROM the embarassing monkies you see at the zoo. Humanz know not to drink their pee (most of the time) and we learned that thousands of years ago. Thats why we drive cars and know things like science. Were like a diffrent kind of monkey. a smart monkey! I understand your logic cook. Its wrong though! I am the logic judge!
By: meat
Re: Carl Sagan: Four Billion Years of Evolution
The only thing consistent in evolution is that the theory itself is constantly evolving to prove itself.
By: Bravado
Re: Carl Sagan: Four Billion Years of Evolution
Huh? I will have to assume you mean that
all theories can change as new information is gathered, right? That's science. Unlike...let's say...religious dogma
which never changes regardless of evidence.
all theories can change as new information is gathered, right? That's science. Unlike...let's say...religious dogma
which never changes regardless of evidence.
By: Crabjuice
Re: Carl Sagan: Four Billion Years of Evolution
Your last statement is absurd. Why do you think we have scores of denominations and sects?
By: aaroncoal
Re: Carl Sagan: Four Billion Years of Evolution
My current statment is absurd! we have benominations and sects becase ppl are dumb. SCIENCE, however, is always yielding. Theories are generally agreed upon. Scientific laws are ALWAYS agreed upon. there are WAY more theories than laws. Im an ass. lol.
By: meat
Re: Carl Sagan: Four Billion Years of Evolution
Remember. This is only a theory.
Never proven. So prove it. You can't
Never proven. So prove it. You can't
By: syer5437
Re: Carl Sagan: Four Billion Years of Evolution
No, wait, seriously? "Only Theory"?
This isn't like "Well, my theory is that..." this is scientific theory, "in science a theory does not mean an unsubstantiated guess or hunch, as it can in everyday speech. A theory is a logically self-consistent model or framework for describing the behavior of a related set of natural or social phenomena. It originates from or is supported by experimental evidence (see scientific method). In this sense, a theory is a systematic and formalized expression of all previous observations which is predictive, logical and testable. In principle, scientific theories are always tentative, and subject to corrections or inclusion in a yet wider theory. Commonly, a large number of more specific hypotheses may be logically bound together by just one or two theories. As a general rule for use of the term, theories tend to deal with much broader sets of universals than do hypotheses, which ordinarily deal with much more specific sets of phenomena or specific applications of a theory." (taken from wikipedia)
So, scientific theory is something that has, over many observations and experiments, has proven an hypothesis or several, true, according to what is known about the subject today. By naming it a "theory" it means that, as of now, scientists have not been able to disprove it.
This isn't like "Well, my theory is that..." this is scientific theory, "in science a theory does not mean an unsubstantiated guess or hunch, as it can in everyday speech. A theory is a logically self-consistent model or framework for describing the behavior of a related set of natural or social phenomena. It originates from or is supported by experimental evidence (see scientific method). In this sense, a theory is a systematic and formalized expression of all previous observations which is predictive, logical and testable. In principle, scientific theories are always tentative, and subject to corrections or inclusion in a yet wider theory. Commonly, a large number of more specific hypotheses may be logically bound together by just one or two theories. As a general rule for use of the term, theories tend to deal with much broader sets of universals than do hypotheses, which ordinarily deal with much more specific sets of phenomena or specific applications of a theory." (taken from wikipedia)
So, scientific theory is something that has, over many observations and experiments, has proven an hypothesis or several, true, according to what is known about the subject today. By naming it a "theory" it means that, as of now, scientists have not been able to disprove it.
By: FustianRiddle
Re: Carl Sagan: Four Billion Years of Evolution
"taken from wikipedia"
Never take anything from Wikipedia.
I love how the definition of theory is changed just because you stick the word scientific in front of it.
Philosophical theory isn't "true" necessarily.
It just happens to be a theory that is pertaining to philosphy.
I regret to inform you that even scientists have to look both ways before they cross the street.
Never take anything from Wikipedia.
I love how the definition of theory is changed just because you stick the word scientific in front of it.
Philosophical theory isn't "true" necessarily.
It just happens to be a theory that is pertaining to philosphy.
I regret to inform you that even scientists have to look both ways before they cross the street.
By: aaroncoal
Re: Carl Sagan: Four Billion Years of Evolution
Ah, it's refreshing to see that I'm not the only true believer here. Which is great, because I am starting a community in which we can finally escape this science mumbo-jumbo. It's great, you'll love it. It's a cave, right? And we use rocks to smash things! No need for modern medicine, machinery, nothin'!
By: McCorvic
Re: Carl Sagan: Four Billion Years of Evolution
are we starting over then? I think this is a wise decision.
By: meat
Re: Carl Sagan: Four Billion Years of Evolution
Youre confusing yourself bro.
I have a theroy! Arron Coal is an ass! =P
Scientists dont think theyre god, the dont want to rule the world, they just want to figure it out. mmkay?
I have a theroy! Arron Coal is an ass! =P
Scientists dont think theyre god, the dont want to rule the world, they just want to figure it out. mmkay?
By: meat
Re: Carl Sagan: Four Billion Years of Evolution
There are many words which, like "theory," have both a formal meaning and a colloquial meaning. Words like "proof." Or "power." Or "bastard." Or "douchebag."
It is important to understand the distinction, lest you come across looking like the latter.
It is important to understand the distinction, lest you come across looking like the latter.
By: quisph
Re: Carl Sagan: Four Billion Years of Evolution
Well the important thing I think we've all learned from this and nearly every evolutionists debate tactics is make sure to toss in words like douchebag and twit..that way we all know how you really feel.
You know it only makes me smirk more to know I make you feel so threatened.
Better go with some stronger names now...it will make your points seem that much stronger.
You know it only makes me smirk more to know I make you feel so threatened.
Better go with some stronger names now...it will make your points seem that much stronger.
By: aaroncoal
Re: Carl Sagan: Four Billion Years of Evolution
All the rude words in the world will not change the fact that you are wrong to use the colloquial definition of "theory" to discuss a scientific theory. Though I'm not at all surprised that you continue to ignore this point. Exemplary debate tactics, Aaron.
By: quisph
Re: Carl Sagan: Four Billion Years of Evolution
"Never take anything from Wikipedia."
If you can cite a better definition for 'scientific theory' do so by all means, but don't resort to a weak ad hominem against a website.
"I love how the definition of theory is changed just because you stick the word scientific in front of it."
Of course it does. Just like the definition of can is changed when you put the word soup in front of it.
"Philosophical theory isn't "true" necessarily. It just happens to be a theory that is pertaining to philosphy."
Right. However, 'scientific theory' does not mean a guess pertaining to science. It means a logically self-consistent model or framework for describing the behavior of a related set of natural or social phenomena. I didn't make this up. Scientists, theistic and atheistic alike, have agreed upon this terminology.
If you can cite a better definition for 'scientific theory' do so by all means, but don't resort to a weak ad hominem against a website.
"I love how the definition of theory is changed just because you stick the word scientific in front of it."
Of course it does. Just like the definition of can is changed when you put the word soup in front of it.
"Philosophical theory isn't "true" necessarily. It just happens to be a theory that is pertaining to philosphy."
Right. However, 'scientific theory' does not mean a guess pertaining to science. It means a logically self-consistent model or framework for describing the behavior of a related set of natural or social phenomena. I didn't make this up. Scientists, theistic and atheistic alike, have agreed upon this terminology.
By: Hummm
Re: Carl Sagan: Four Billion Years of Evolution
What you are describing is a hypothesis. In the scientific community, a theory is something that explains the mechanics of that which can be observed and/ or tested.
When someone goes to school for any sort of scientific career, they learn the theory behind their field (e.g., nuclear theory, acoustic theory, quantum theory, etc.).
When someone goes to school for any sort of scientific career, they learn the theory behind their field (e.g., nuclear theory, acoustic theory, quantum theory, etc.).
By: HousePayne


